Joining the electric car club

[SE_123]

What it shows though is that if you add up the costs for fuel, servicing, repairs, tax (basically everything other than depreciation), the Audi E-Tron has cost about £750 per year, for just over 11k miles per year. With fuel accounting for less than half that! Crazy.

Next issue to tackle is the big one. DEPRECIATION.

So the key is to buy a used EV and pray the used market exists when the battery and drivetrain is out of warranty.

 

[gb-gta]

So the key is to buy a used EV and pray the used market exists when the battery and drivetrain is out of warranty.

I guess the amount of private buyers willing to buy a complex EV out of warranty off your driveway is going to be fairly slim. Even less than ones prepared to buy a Maserati off your drive!
This of course means you are stuck with trading in and the traders will then be holding all the aces….

 

[dickygrace]

Next issue to tackle is the big one. DEPRECIATION.

I’m keen to hear this as I reckon it’ll blow the savings on fuel and servicing completely out of the water.

 

[Gp79]

I’m keen to hear this as I reckon it’ll blow the savings on fuel and servicing completely out of the water.

Yes same here.
Be something like spend in depreciation 15k / year to “save” 2-3k / year.

That’s comparing to me running around in a 2011 A6 worth sweet FA - so no depreciation

 

[dickygrace]

Yes same here.
Be something like spend in depreciation 15k / year to “save” 2-3k / year.

That’s comparing to me running around in a 2011 A6 worth sweet FA

Car was £79k new, I reckon Ewan got around £10k off, and it is now worth around £25k trade judging by them retailing E-Tron 55 Quattros at sub £30k. So that’s near as **** it £44k or £1200 pcm in depreciation alone which is being paid for by the owner, unless he was lucky and got a gullible or overly optimistic finance co to give a £50k GFV. Thing is, I know @Ewan and he’s not daft, so I’d suggest the finance co are the ones to have lost out this time. I don’t think they will any longer though, as they will be wise to the fact that second hand EV’s hold little appeal and prices are alarmingly low comparative to their new sticker prices.

 

[lifes2short]

keep reading about this "charge rage" thing, looks like you also need to be handy at taking abuse and/or fisticuffs

 

[gb-gta]

Car was £79k new, I reckon Ewan got around £10k off, and it is now worth around £25k trade judging by them retailing E-Tron 55 Quattros at sub £30k. So that’s near as **** it £44k or £1200 pcm in depreciation alone which is being paid for by the owner, unless he was lucky and got a gullible or overly optimistic finance co to give a £50k GFV. Thing is, I know @Ewan and he’s not daft, so I’d suggest the finance co are the ones to have lost out this time. I don’t think they will any longer though, as they will be wise to the fact that second hand EV’s hold little appeal and prices are alarmingly low comparative to their new sticker prices.

Salary sacrifice is the only reason EV’s sell in any numbers.
If it wasn’t for system that allows the taxpayer to put in 40% if the lease cost virtually no-one would have one.
I think the manufacturers will be taking some hit as I guess 3 years ago they didn’t know how much values would bomb.

Who would pay £1200/month lease for one? The BIK tax discount rate being more like £700 or so seems more paletable of course….

 

[Ewan]

Here we go then. The big one!

The car listed at £79k new. But it had been registered two months before I bought it and was being used by the dealer principle. I “paid“ £67k, but on a three year company lease deal, through Audi finance, with a GFV of £34k. The reality is that it’s worth a few £k less than that now as trade in, but that’s Audi finances’s problem, not mine.

So, in depreciation, the car has cost me £33k over 36 months and 34k miles. If we add in the costs for fuel, servicing etc, we may as well call it £36k. So, all-in, £1k a month, for approx 1k a month mileage, for three years.

Though of course, it’s not actually cost me that, as it’s through one my companies. With reclaiming the VAT, paying no BIK, etc, in real terms, I estimate it was the equivalent of my forgoing maybe £300 a month in post tax income. Which is an absolute bargain.

Could I have been driving around in a new £70k ICE car for that? Obviously not. Which is exactly why me and thousands of other company car qualifying people took advantage of the generous government incentives offered.

An equivalent new £70k ICE car would have cost more than that £300 figure per month just in fuel and servicing. And would still have depreciated, what, £25k? (depending on which Audi/Merc/BMW/Jag I’d chosen). And if had been a company car, quite a lot in BIK (I’ve not looked it up, but I’d imagine at least £500 a month).

Overall, therefore, given my personal circumstances, the experiment has worked out very well. But not everyone is in the same position as me, so the sums could look very different. As ever, you need to look at your own financial/tax circumstances, plus your driving habits, where you park, and when/how you can charge it.

I hope my findings from my 3 year EV experiment may be of use to some. (Even if just to rule out the thought of EV ownership!)

And in the meantime, I look forward to the arrival of the new one. Which is higher spec (being newer), with better range, better m/kWh, and nearly £25k cheaper even as a brand spanking new car. It’s on Audi finance again, at a monthly rate of approx 2/3rds of the old one, and a good GFV.

 

[DLax69]

In other news, I was at a meeting the other night where the deputy fire chief said they were building an all-electric firehouse, including EV fire trucks...and he was asked who was going to be charged with putting out the ladder truck battery fire...

 

[dickygrace]

@Ewan yes that all makes sense, it’s a no-brainer owing to tax savings for people in a similar situation. For people who aren’t, nobody in their right mind would buy them.

 

[sionie1]

Lease companies are getting wise, and particularly on company cars are stacking the depreciation into the payments. Previously I had a choice of VW Passats, BMW 330E m sports touring and some Mercs , all hybrids. Now the lease is up however none of those call into the payment brackets for my grade As our business has pledged all electric or hybrid but not increased contributions. The phev version of my current Volvo V60 is just short of £10k more expensive now.
My team are even worse off, doing 30k miles per year and being offered Kia Nero or Suzuki as the best choice. There are plenty of other manufacturers out there, mainly Stellantis group who offer attractive list prices but the minute we plug in the mileage the quotes go through the roof. For example a Peugdot 308 sports tourer comes out at 650 per month… the budget for the team is £330 a month and 25kmiles per year, so they haven’t got a hope. Meanwhile the senior team team get new 5 and 7 series BMWs at over £100k… can you image what a Kia Nero with 120k miles will be worth, if it hasn’t imploded?

 

[SE_123]

Not an overly compelling argument for EVs when you need a limited company and tax breaks to swing the numbers

 

[safrane]

Over the same period my used Volvo xc90 cost me c15k in depreciation... why anyone buys new is beyond me.

It has had one suspension bag and a new compressor (£1800) 3 service at Volvo for less than 1k total... and fuel is about £4k and I have done similar miles to Ewan getting an average over 3 years of 62mpg.

So about £22k or 60p per mile.

And I still have a car at the end of it.

 

[philw696]

Never ever bought a new car in my life as I've always enjoyed the used market values.
Out of all the cars I've had the best value one was the Ferrari 456 GTA for £25,000 costing the first owner £160,000 the car was 14 years old when I bought it.
The next the 360 Modena was only 9 years old cost the first owner £120,000 and for £39,000 these are the kind of deals i like.
My current fleet of oddballs comprising French German English and one Italian are collectively worth more than what I paid for them over a 5 year period and all would sell quite easily here in France if I needed too.

 

[Ewan]

Over the same period my used Volvo xc90 cost me c15k in depreciation... why anyone buys new is beyond me.

It has had one suspension bag and a new compressor (£1800) 3 service at Volvo for less than 1k total... and fuel is about £4k and I have done similar miles to Ewan getting an average over 3 years of 62mpg.

So about £22k or 60p per mile.

And I still have a car at the end of it.

I think that’s good going, with superb mpg, all whilst driving a good quality, comfortable and reliable modern car. Goes to show it was a good choice when you got it.
Obviously not a like-for-like comparison with the E-Tron, as it’s comparing a used car to a new one. And we all know that used cars are cheaper up front than new ones. But useful figures none the less and shows a more normal/typical ownership.

Interestingly though, it looks as though the Audi cost me less than half the Volvo, at (approx) £300 a month in total versus (approx) £700. So I have to say a big thank you to Rishi Sunak from his days as the Chancellor.

Thinking of the wider fleet, and purely for our collective amusement, how is the cost-per-mile figure looking like for your Maserati over the last three years!? (I suspect it may be even worse than some of my cars!).

 

[Ewan]

Over the same period my used Volvo xc90 cost me c15k in depreciation... why anyone buys new is beyond me.

I suppose the argument for buying new is that you the very latest tech, safety features, comforts, and engineering enhancements. You also get a proper warranty and no concerns about the vehicles past ownership.

And there are, from time to time, some cracking deals. I bought my Volvo V90 estate a little over 5 years ago, brand new, and got an additional £5k off just for taking the Volvo 0% finance deal. I had intended to pay cash, but obviously didn’t when I realised that would cost me £5k more.

It‘s now done about 35k miles and, after a good clean, still looks virtually new. The plan is to keep it another few years yet, as it’s been super reliable, comfy, practical and economical. It simply ticks all the boxes you’d expect it to.

Shame Volvo no longer offer an estate car in the U.K., but I suppose it’s a sign of the times.

 

[Ewan]

Not an overly compelling argument for EVs when you need a limited company and tax breaks to swing the numbers

Very true. Which is why the number of private buyers of brand new high-end EV cars is so small. In financial terms, they only stack up as company purchases.

Where an EV might work as a private buy is slightly lower down the price bracket. For example, a lightly used ID3 can be had at way below the new price, and would be an incredibly cheap car to run (with usual caveats about being able to charge at home overnight). I have a friend that has recently done this, so it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few years. It’s to do all the local trips, shopping, commuting, etc, to keep the mileage down on his 911 and allow him to keep the Porsche for special occasions.

 

[zagatoes30]

I bought my 06 plated 147 12 months ago with a knackered engine for €350, friend supplied and fitted a replacement engine for €800 with new belts, water pump etc. Insurance was €420 and it averaged 32 mpg over 12k miles. It had a pair of front tyres €200 and a bit of welding €50 for the NCT (MOT) €56, Road tax was €505 per annum which I think works out a €0.25 per mile of €250 per month all in. Then if we add in depreciation, I've just sold it for €1500 the number comes back to around €0.13 per mile or €130 per month.

Bangernomics

 

[allandwf]

I used to get fed up doing all the maths etc. on company cars, so used to choose on the highest insurance premium! So usually had something nice lol. I was doing 40k miles a year back then.

 

[philw696]