Passenger window dip function (4200)

Emtee

New Member
Messages
8,446
Thanks for the pictures David, they're very helpful. A question if I may? Are you sure the dip function micro-switch regulates the lift as well as the fall? I can see how it would regulate the fall as it closes against the 'ramp', but in the up position it's floating? I ask as I regularly hear a click from the passenger footwell, which then activates a check routine where the windows lift slightly from an already closed position. It was this that made me think the lift stop position was regulated by resistance? I don't know for sure, just surmising?
 

JAGPURR

New Member
Messages
91
There is obviously more to the windows than meets the eye? I will do some digging and come up with a proper write up as to the operation. David in the pics you took am I right in assuming the second pic shows the window in its retracted position with microswitch disengaged and the third pic with the window fully raised and microswitch engaged? Just trying to suss out without removing my door card. And what year is your car as I dont remember seeing this hole in my door although I could have missed it if its taped over.
Keith
 

davidhowson

Junior Member
Messages
474
I have now found the fourth and final(?) sensor! It's in the door lock.
So, the window system first of all checks the sensor I found near to the airbag to see if it's the contact position (window fully closed) or open (window open).
If this sensor is detecting the window is fully closed, when you start to open either the inside or outside door handle the system will dip the windo until this sensor is in the open position. When you shut the door, the sensor in the door lock detects the engagement of the door latch and fires a signal to raise the glass untill the sensor by the airbag closes thereby letting the system know the window is fully shut.
If the sensor near the air bag detects the window is already open (because the contacts of the misroswitch are also open) the window dip doesnot operate.
Likewise, when you raise the window using the button on the dash, the system detects when the glass is fully up when the micro switch by the airbag closes.

So: Microswitches in both door handles to detect door opening, microswitch near the airbag to regulate the window position and micro switch in the door lock to detect door closed (this also seems to operate the cabin lights too).

Mine is a 2002 car, so possibly different to later ones, but I have seen pictures of a later car with the same bit of black tape covering the hole where the sensor by the air bag is situated.

Simples.

-David-
 

alfamaserman

Junior Member
Messages
185
Just to remind all I had this with mine i.e. window not dipping on entry. Thinking it would be a microswitch problem I assumed a 'quick fix'. This was not the case - a faulty window regulator was the diagnosis. For those who think the job is easy I can tell you that Graypaul did mine under warranty and disturbed the air-bag in the process which also had to be replaced.
 

JAGPURR

New Member
Messages
91
A microswitch in the door lock also tells the system if the door is locked thus telling it to ignore any movement of the handles so the windows doesn't drop everytime some hoodie tries your door.
K
 

JAGPURR

New Member
Messages
91
Those switches are associated to the loch / latch mechanism and arn't much of a bargain.
I have put together a full opperation guide and posted in the Technical section, hope this helps with the diagnosing of any problems. It may help to check out Davids pics befor reading.
Keith
 

davidhowson

Junior Member
Messages
474
Thanks guys.
I have a full mechanism on the way to me, should be with me by the end of the week.
I will take plenty of pictures of the new unit and of the old to show where the fault has developed and possibly how to fix it without having to resort to a new window regulator.
Regards
David
 

Parisien

Moderator
Messages
34,927
Great stuff David........the trilogy of you, Loz and JAGPURR are worth your weight in gold.......!

P
 

dm2

New Member
Messages
44
Hi All. Been a long time for me, but I realised that I started this thread. I no longer have the problem because..... I got rid of her! :-(

Too many miles on my current project unfortunately so have gone back to a lovely big Jaguar XJ ! However there is a twist..

I am missing the Maser so much that I *have* to buy another one. I am not going to rush in, but I have seen a couple of 03-04 model years on autotrader for what looks like a good price, so I may bite soon!

There are two that look of interest to me
Silver 4200 CC, 2004, 52000 miles
http://www.gmmcarriage.co.uk/vehicle-details.asp?ID=1321149

Grey 4200 CC, 2004, 50000 miles
http://dealerservices.autotrader.co.uk/64906/used-cars.htm

Any opinions on these cars would be welcome. I am leaning towards the grey one at the moment...

Hope to be back on as a fully fledged (i.e. an actual owner!) soon.
 
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Tiburon44

New Member
Messages
113
When I use the key to lock/unlock the doors, both of my windows dip and then go back into place..........That is something new since having the drivers window mechanism replaced. Is it supposed to do that?
 

Emtee

New Member
Messages
8,446
Doesn't sound right Tiburon and mine certainly doesn't do that, well not off the transponder. I've actually never put the key in the lock, so I can't comment with any certainty.
 

Tiburon44

New Member
Messages
113
Sorry should have been more clear, not using the key to unlock, just pushing the button on the key to unlock them, causes both to dip, and then again when I push the button to lock the doors, they both dip. Any insight?
 

davidhowson

Junior Member
Messages
474
I'm on a roll now. Another problem sorted.
new window regulator mechanism is now in place, took about 30 minutes to swap over, four nuts hold the motor unit in place, two hold the window guide and two through the bottom of the glass. Connectors for the motor and one for the microswitch. The whole unit folds up and feed back out of the bottom hole in the inner door skin. PLugged the new mechanism in and the car sorted itself out with no messing. I can't believe it was that easy!
The old window regulator had completly broken in two so I have managed to salvage the motor and the micro switch but that's all.
I have a few pictures which I will again try to upload, but to be honest, if you can work out how to remove the door card, you've done the hardest bit.
Thanks for the help and advice guys, it's always really appreciated.
Regards
David
 

Emtee

New Member
Messages
8,446
Nice one David. Do you mean the complete lifter mechanism? If so was it Alfa?
 

davidhowson

Junior Member
Messages
474
Miles, It was the complete window mechanism. It comes with the microswitch and the motor attached.
It was a used part, came off a low mileage 3200 for £50. At that I'm very pleased!

I believe there is an Alfa part that is very similar, not sure if it's the GTV. I will have to have a look.

In fact, this is the same part I used as listed on ebay at the moment, with pictures:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Regards

David
 

davidhowson

Junior Member
Messages
474
I have had a look at various Alfa parts and here are my observations:
The Alfa Spyder and the Maserati items look to be identical (the bit of metal on the top left of the third picture - the Maserati item, looks to be different, but it's only because that part moves about and it's just the way the sellers have taken the photo), where as the 147 is just lacking the microswitch that controls the window dip facility. The Alfa parts are on sale for between £40 and £69 on ebay now.

1. Alfa Spyder window regulator:
2. Alfa 147 window regulator:
3. Maserati window regulator:

Regards
David
 

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Emtee

New Member
Messages
8,446
Cheers David, I think you may have shown me the way to sort my lazy window. Thanks for sticking with this one, it's appreciated. Regards, Miles.