Purely as an investment...

[drellis]

No one knows the future, all.we can do is look at the past and then guess. The youth of today appears to contain far less petrolheads, no car posters on walls, i suspect a smaller number of buyers for niche cars, and maybe they will not have the value we would like.
I would probably buy a supra, as i like the look of it

 

[williamsmix]

No one knows the future, all.we can do is look at the past and then guess. The youth of today appears to contain far less petrolheads, no car posters on walls, i suspect a smaller number of buyers for niche cars, and maybe they will not have the value we would like.
I would probably buy a supra, as i like the look of it

From an engineering perspective the best of the last petrol engined production is probably happening right now(?). It’ll be over by 2035 so the r&d investment will be going into EVs now, not into ICE. On that basis anything contemporary with some classic pedigree and, probably, a fuel efficient petrol turbo engine would be a good bet(?) eg Alpine A110, Porsche Cayman, Alfa 4C … Unfortunately there aren’t any Maseratis that meet my criteria, but I still love‘em! In 2035, younger petrol heads won’t share my perspective and will probably be less inclined to indulge way back in past.

 

[safrane]

Like most investments you will need to consider the timing of any return.

people in their 60/70s will have already bought their 'classic' investment if that was their bag.

Those who desired an 80s classic are in their 50s now hence the price point for those is pretty much at the top of their curve as c50 years old is when you are more likely to have the disposable income to purchase.

So for a investment to pay back in c 10-20 years you will be looking at millennium cars.

So I would be looking at a M3 or AMG, big engine, low-miles... and would probably loose my shirt.

 

[williamsmix]

Like most investments you will need to consider the timing of any return.

people in their 60/70s will have already bought their 'classic' investment if that was their bag.

Those who desired an 80s classic are in their 50s now hence the price point for those is pretty much at the top of their curve as c50 years old is when you are more likely to have the disposable income to purchase.

So for a investment to pay back in c 10-20 years you will be looking at millennium cars.

So I would be looking at a M3 or AMG, big engine, low-miles... and would probably loose my shirt.

Yeah, you maybe right … but I think what pushes against that is growing environmental awareness and the culture change that’s starting to pervade. It could be marginally more socially acceptable to be driving something that’s perceived to be fuel efficient in 20 years time, so that’s where the bulk of the petrol head market could go (in fear of continuing existence?!). The big gas guzzlers will be a lot more niche, they’ll hide away in fear of embarrassment and will probably only come out for car shows …

 

[Ewan]

I don’t think mpg matters, as investment cars aren’t for driving every day. My old V12 Ferrari struggles to do 12mpg, but so what, given that it only does a few hundred miles a year.

 

[DLax69]

Anyone who is feeling poorly about their "investments," and wishing to cut their losses, can donate the vehicles to my favorite charity: me.

I love the premise of this thread, but I can honestly say that I am dumb enough with my own money that I have never bought a car as an investment instrument. And I've likely lost/sold/had an ex-wife sell out from under me cars that...would I have but held on to them...would have brought pretty good returns. The 1972 Chevy Monte Carlo with the 402, that I bought for $1600 in 1987...the 911 I abandoned in a church parking lot after an engine failure...

 

[3leftovercrest]

Given my experience on what I have made on cars, the ones that have made the most return are the low - medium mileage special editions that had a defined number of a “run”.

But all those cars were not 100% OEM when I got them as was the fashion to upgrade and have something unique to you. Now people want OEM and I state that above mileage and sometimes condition.

So my Williams Clio “1” was low mileage. It was also 1 owner and anything imperfect or non OEM I replaced. Sold it for 4 times the purchase price

My 1979 Esprit JPS (well officially called the “commerative edition”) was put back to OEM, it was in a good condition when I got it but needed extra work. Sold for 4.5x what I paid for it

Same for the Clio “Trophy”… limited edition with a plaque number. Bought the best and put back to OEM. Sold for 2.75x purchase price…

My 22b is now OEM with low mileage and will go up for sale end of this month… again limited and numbered edition..

This is my actual experience and what I set out in my strategy and it seems to have worked (well we’ll see how much the 22b will go for)…

Stu

 

[DLax69]

Given my experience on what I have made on cars, the ones that have made the most return are the low - medium mileage special editions that had a defined number of a “run”.

But all those cars were not 100% OEM when I got them as was the fashion to upgrade and have something unique to you. Now people want OEM and I state that above mileage and sometimes condition.

So my Williams Clio “1” was low mileage. It was also 1 owner and anything imperfect or non OEM I replaced. Sold it for 4 times the purchase price

My 1979 Esprit JPS (well officially called the “commerative edition”) was put back to OEM, it was in a good condition when I got it but needed extra work. Sold for 4.5x what I paid for it

Same for the Clio “Trophy”… limited edition with a plaque number. Bought the best and put back to OEM. Sold for 2.75x purchase price…

My 22b is now OEM with low mileage and will go up for sale end of this month… again limited and numbered edition..

This is my actual experience and what I set out in my strategy and it seems to have worked (well we’ll see how much the 22b will go for)…

Stu

Sounds very sensible. Sadly, I am just...not. Would rather tweak the heck out of it and drive it til the wheels fall off and/or lose it in divorce proceedings...(OK, trying to be done with those now)...

 

[whereskeith]

The problem maybe with the GTR and Alpine is that the are making decent numbers of both. Investment value is often linked to relative rarity which neither qualify for. I know I mentioned a couple of cars which may suffer the same fate upon reflection.

For example, there are only 1421 Porsche Cayman R worldwide which compares to over 40,000 Nissan GTRs. That's a massive difference. There are now over 12,000 Alpine A110s out there and counting.

There are 1911 Aston V8 Vantage S coupes and 825 roadsters. Low numbers. For Mr @Felonious Crud there are 1277 V12 Vantage S coupes and 363 roadsters, oddly they made less on the non-S versions.

There are 9195 Alfa 4c variants out there.

So, to summarise, with 45k or so to spend, I think I'd buy a Cayman R. It's the first aggresive Cayman and so has a place in a significant market of Porsche enthusiasts. A much bigger market than almost all other brands. Supply vs Demand.

Do you mean R35 gtr , which was not built in the 90’s and yes there are probably that number of them made .
If you mean the Skyline GTR there are 3 versions from 89 to 99 ish and no single version was made in those quantities.
All I think are good buys

 

[Ewan]

If the budget was squeezed upwards a tad, a slightly higher-than-average-mileage GranSport MC Victory might fit in. There were only 75 of those originally (and only about 15 or so in the UK).

My old one is for sale, but not within budget (sadly).

 

[outrun]

Do you mean R35 gtr , which was not built in the 90’s and yes there are probably that number of them made .
If you mean the Skyline GTR there are 3 versions from 89 to 99 ish and no single version was made in those quantities.
All I think are good buys

Yes, I meant the Nissan GTR R35 which was mentioned by a previous poster. There are too any of them. As for the "proper" Skylines, they are all collectable now so I think out of the £45k imaginary budget. I'd have an R34 version in a heartbeat, love them.

 

[V8time]

C63 Amg 507 edition

 

[ChrisQP09]

BMW 8 Series V12

C63 Estate

Dodge Viper SRT

 

[Nayf]

Given my experience on what I have made on cars, the ones that have made the most return are the low - medium mileage special editions that had a defined number of a “run”.

But all those cars were not 100% OEM when I got them as was the fashion to upgrade and have something unique to you. Now people want OEM and I state that above mileage and sometimes condition.

So my Williams Clio “1” was low mileage. It was also 1 owner and anything imperfect or non OEM I replaced. Sold it for 4 times the purchase price

My 1979 Esprit JPS (well officially called the “commerative edition”) was put back to OEM, it was in a good condition when I got it but needed extra work. Sold for 4.5x what I paid for it

Same for the Clio “Trophy”… limited edition with a plaque number. Bought the best and put back to OEM. Sold for 2.75x purchase price…

My 22b is now OEM with low mileage and will go up for sale end of this month… again limited and numbered edition..

This is my actual experience and what I set out in my strategy and it seems to have worked (well we’ll see how much the 22b will go for)…

Stu

Well looking at 22B sales the phrase Milky Bars Are On You would be insufficient, how about the whole factory?
More seriously though, GLWS

 

[hashluck]

If the budget was squeezed upwards a tad, a slightly higher-than-average-mileage GranSport MC Victory might fit in. There were only 75 of those originally (and only about 15 or so in the UK).

My old one is for sale, but not within budget (sadly).

You need to up the budget then Ewan since you set it Seriously though, I am always open to discussion from forum folk who know what they are buying

2007 Maserati Gransport MC-Victory, Superb, Rare, ULEZ -...

2007 Maserati Gransport MC-Victory, Superb, Rare, ULEZ - For Sale, £58,950 2007 Maserati Gransport MC-Victory, the ultimate incarnation o...

www.carandclassic.com

 

[Nayf]

From an engineering perspective the best of the last petrol engined production is probably happening right now(?). It’ll be over by 2035 so the r&d investment will be going into EVs now, not into ICE. On that basis anything contemporary with some classic pedigree and, probably, a fuel efficient petrol turbo engine would be a good bet(?) eg Alpine A110, Porsche Cayman, Alfa 4C … Unfortunately there aren’t any Maseratis that meet my criteria, but I still love‘em! In 2035, younger petrol heads won’t share my perspective and will probably be less inclined to indulge way back in past.

ICE development hasn’t stopped, despite what most firm’s marketing agencies would have you believe.
Wrote a piece about it for the new issue of Magneto.
If you only look at mobility through the prism of Northern Europe, the USA and Japan, it would appear that EVs are the only answer.
The reality is somewhat different…

 

[Nayf]

You need to up the budget then Ewan since you set it Seriously though, I am always open to discussion from forum folk who know what they are buying

2007 Maserati Gransport MC-Victory, Superb, Rare, ULEZ -...

2007 Maserati Gransport MC-Victory, Superb, Rare, ULEZ - For Sale, £58,950 2007 Maserati Gransport MC-Victory, the ultimate incarnation o...

www.carandclassic.com

Did consider this as the Cup idea seems to be going nowhere but I’m miles away, alas.

 

[cheshiremaserati]

As a Porsche enthusiast, I'd go for a clean sub-50k miles Porsche 996 Turbo.

The GT3 is way beyond the budget as is anything Porsche with tge coveted RS badge.

I know the marque inside out. So I'd not step outside and risk buying a bad example that could be a money-pit. I can spot a money-pit Porsche from a thousand yards and a look at the service book.

 

[ChrisQP09]

Im a sucker for the looks of a Targa but I largely dont ‘get’ the Porsche thing.

 

[hashluck]

Audi TT Quattro Sport, only 800 made, (200 red 200 black 200 blue 200 silver).
Available for around 10K at the moment, price will rocket.

I agree one to look for but already 10K won't do it. Low mileage cars are hitting 20K and beyond. Whether or not they have the colour coded Pile Position Recaros (factory-fit) makes a big difference. Not sure on your 200 of each colour either. Customer could order what they wanted so the numbers fell out from that. Also there were two different silvers, Avus Silver and Brilliant Silver.