Release Bearing Fix - Possible Bulk Buy

Fat Arnie

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3200 GT Clutch Failures - Release Bearing Fix - Possible Bulk Buy

My clutch failed today :-(

Examination has revealed it is the all too common issue with the one of the bearing carrier pegs which locate on the clutch arm snapping off.

Having discussed the issue with several indipendent dealers, the concencus is that the aluminium the bearing carrier is made from is not the best material - its too thin, poorly machined, and is low grade. Its ideal if you want to sell lots of replacements though.

Some of you may know I have an engineering background, and whilst not my occupation, l dabble a lot.

I am going to make an alternative bearing carrier from a high grade EN8 or similar steel. This will use the OEM release bearing, but will replace the nasty cheap aluminium bit which breaks.

Its not beyond possibility I can get lots of these made, hence If they could be produced for a sub £100 cost (and probably quite a bit below that) they would eliminate one key point of failure.

Given the rest of your clutch is unlikey to wear out before this part fails, this could double clutch life and half the cost.

So is anyone interested?
 
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Parisien

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Hi FA....sounds interesting.......can you populate the thread with pics of the poor part, and or fully explain the details of what you're going to do.......to the likes of me.....:)


P
 

Fat Arnie

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Mr P,

Therein lies the problem.

My car is now at Gaillo and will be pulled apart early next week. (I dont have a 2 post life or I would DIY it), so what I am really after is someone with a bearing I can measure up and make some drawings from.

I shall this evening try to improvise if i can find a decent sized image of the part in question.
 

Fat Arnie

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OK, So looking at the diagram below, we are talking about the outer casing of the release bearing (3) in the drawing. It engages between the prongs of the clutch fork (4), with the pegs sitting each side of the fork leg. The peg nearest the gearbox snaps off.

So the objective here is to make just the casing of (3) - you will retain the actual bearing and the section which clips onto the clutch cover.
 

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  • 3200GT-095.jpg
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Parisien

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I see......how common is this failure.....the knock effect is..................?...........................Hillengineering, do an up-graded release bearing................................approach them?


P
 

Fat Arnie

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That's for a 4200 so is based on the Ferrari F1 shift powertrain. 3200 is very different.

Knock effect is that the car is stranded - clutch will not disengage. You cannot pull away.

Some people here are obsessed by heavy duty clutches for the 3200. The bearing is the same, so a clutch with heavier springs (more clamping = more torque capacity) will destroy the bearing carrier even quicker.
 
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conaero

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Arnie that is a brilliant idea. I too had this failure, during a wet school run. Next to the fly by wire throttle system in the 3200, this is the next most common failure IMHO.

The issues you have here are one of indemnity. If a part you manufactured and sold was to fail, causing an accident, then you would be in a sticky place.

I am sure it will never come to this but it is something you need to consider. I did keep my old clutch I have a look in the garage but I think I binned it.

I do remember someone one here finding the bearing direct from Sachs for a small amount of money so I think you need to shell out for a new one.

I have a pic of my failed bearing I'll try and look it out for you.
 

conaero

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Here you go, I found it:

attachment.php
 

Fat Arnie

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Conearo, I don't think a CRB is a big issue in terms of failure leading to accident. We can govern purchase terms to liabilities not exceeding price paid for the item anyway.

Looking at your pic, it seems the case is not even aluminium, its pressed steel. Do you still have the parts in the picture as this would give us a head start on designing a new one?
 

conaero

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I am pretty sure I binned it when I sold the 3200 but Ill check at the weekend.

I am sure Mathew at Giallo can save yours for you of give you one from his collection / parts bin!

When I inspected it, it looked like an alloy casting with a pressed steel cover.
 

Fat Arnie

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428
OK so an update.

I now have in my possession a new release bearing which is below in various states of disassembly.


IMAG0155.jpg

It breaks down (using a small flat bladed screwdriver to prise off the clips) into the following pieces:


1. Main Bearing Body
2. Clips
3. Retaining pin
4. Spring (the wavy washer)
5. Plastic bush/insert


RBbits.jpg


The part which fails is the main bearing body as it is pressed from about 18 gauge steel, and has been quite distressed to form the bearing case shape, let alone retain its strength.

When your clutch fails, it is most likely because one of the lugs on the side of the body has snapped off.

When you press your clutch pedal, all of the release force is taken through the two lugs. Given the mechanical leverage your pedal and the hydraulic actuation provide, this is one heck of a lot of force for a thin piece of bent steel.

So lets look at why the bearing breaks before your clutch is actually worn out:

A push clutch moves the bearing towards the flywheel. The lugs the clutch arm operates on are supported by the actual bearing which sits on the clutch fingers. It is a much stronger design. Those with a keen eye will notioce the fulcrum point fo the fingers is halfway along the finger instead of on the periphery of the clutch as it is on a Pull Clutch. Because of this, the clamping force of the clutch for a given finger section/length is weaker. If it was on a truck instead of a 3200GT it might slip.
Push clutches are used on race cars right up to F1.


Push Clutch.jpg

On the 3200GT then we are forced to use a pull clutch.

The pull clutch requires that the full load to release the clutch is borne by the lugs alone, hence they are under far greater stress. If you have ever removed the clutch from a lorry, these lugs are big chunks of cast steel, not something pressed out of flat sheet. With me so far??

Pull Clutch.jpg

So what happens as your clutch plate wears down?

Now this is the critical bit. Maserati claim the clutch plate must be changed when it wears from its original 9.0mm thickness to 8.5mm. The reality is the clutch plate will not fail until it wears so much the rivets score the flywheel. To reach this point it will be more like 5 or 6mm thick.

What is key however, is that the thinner your clutch plate, the further distance the release bearing must move between the fully released position, and where the springs are fully loaded onto the plate to provide drive.

If your 3200GT is hard to get in gear when stationary (especially reverse) then its because your drive plate is wearing - it is however far from worn out.

Maserati know there is a problem with the weakness of the release bearing, which is why the workshop manual goes to great lengths to set up the position of the pedal stop and the length of the slave cylinder pushrod. These processes are so you get an issue selecting 1st or reverse, before your bearing lugs snap and you are stranded at the side of the road.

The bearings are more prone to break if you adjust the pushrod or pedal stop to get a bit more life from your otherwise fully serviceable clutch.

The bottom line is that if we can make the release bearing stronger, we can extend the life of the clutch. Probably to double or triple what seems to be the normal 20k miles.


Lets go back to my pic and look at two parts:

1. Main Bearing Body
5. Plastic bush/insert


RBbits.jpg


I have this morning examined the options for the bearing body and feel the best approach is to replace the plastic bush/insert.

Currently, any load supported by the lugs on the Main Bearing Body gets transferred to the Plastic bush/insert, but because this is a) Plastic and b) not mechanically attached to the Main Bearing Body except for by the small clips which have little strength, really the strength of the entire setup is down to the sheet metal from which the Main Bearing Body is pressed.

We have already discussed this is not robust.

I have therefore costed out making a kit which comprises a newPlastic bush/insert which is made from steel, with a bronze internal liner to protect the first motion shaft. This new insert is welded to the lugs and welded to the Main Bearing Body.

It is much stronger, and cannot fail to last longer than the 12-20k miles most get from a clutch

Its not going to be cheap, but it almost certainly will extend clutch life dramatically.

If you can find someone to remove your gearbox and fit a new clutch for less than £800, you have done well. With the best price on clutch kits being £500, by the time George Osbourne takes his cut you are into a minimum of £1560, probably more.

The process to upgrade would require you to send me a new bearing and I will return you an modified new bearing by return post. I would expect the cost to the upgrade to the bearing to be about £200.

So is anyone interested ? I need a minimum of 5 interested parties to make this happen.
 
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conaero

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£200....do it, nobody is going to sniff at that for a bearing that is up to the job.

When I used to go away to France in the 3200, I was in constant fear or the bearing going 'twang'

I would send one to Sachs and see what they say, you never know, they might place an order.
 

Fat Arnie

New Member
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428
IMAG0158.jpg

I should have added this picture, which shows the lugs from the other side, so you can see just how weak they are.

You point re cost is noted Conaero.
 

rs48635

Member
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3,181
BINGO!!!!

I have one exactly like that as well, mine was completely torn off, stranding my car.

Only just had mine done, and more recently shelled out ££££ on tother stuff so can't buy the upgraded unit yet. I will be in for one at next maintenance opportunity, but not planning to remove gearbox anytime soon.

Here you go, I found it:

attachment.php
 

Fat Arnie

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428
Right, I decided ( as I need to get my car fixed soon for an event) that the timescale to engineer a saleable option is too long. (Sadly my garage does not have a CNC mill!)

So I came up with a stop gap solution which will fix the problem and took only 2 hours to make with my TIG welder and grinder.

I'll share this with you all so you can all either a) laugh at me when it falls apart, or b) marvel in the glory of being able to depress the clutch for many more miles without the risk of failure.

I used two strips of 25mm x 2mm steel, 40mm long, and two strips of 25mm x 5mm steel about 18mm long with a 6mm hold drilled in the centre.


The thinner pieces are welded into the bearing housing, making it elliptical rather than round. The the 5mm thick pieces are then welded into the original lug positions, round the edges, onto the pieces already added and through he hole for added strength. When welding be sure to cool the piece after each weld, in clean oil. Otherwise your bearing will be FUBARed before you even fit it!

The result is this. Not very pretty, but very functional. The lugs are now much much stronger and supported over a much wider area of the bearing housing.

IMAG0162.jpg
IMAG0164.jpg

I then cut down the original plastic centre guide to fit in the hole, and this will in about 30 minutes be fully pressed in and secured with some Sikaflex 221 PU sealant/adhesive.


IMAG0165.jpg

This baby will not be breaking!