Removal of Front Engine Subframe

[Dhanj]

Hi Guys and Girls,

Hope everyone on here is well. Haven't been on here in a while. Too much of life's little stresses I am afraid.

Talking of stresses, my QP ('04 Duo-select) hit the skids today by way of an MOT failure - excessive rust to an area of the front engine subframe. There is a pretty little picture of the subframe here: https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/maserati/qtp-2003-42/bodywork-lighting/front-underframe-42870

The rust is to the area sitting between where the upper lever is secured. A common theme on QP5s sadly I believe. I will look at potentially having this area welded in situ but this likely will still involve removing a significant part of the front suspension/steering components.

My question to you all is this. If I were to choose to replace the subframe (about £1800 from Maserati - not bad considering) instead of going down the welding route, what best way of doing this? Would it be a complete engine out job? Or would it be possible to support the engine and (everything attached to it) and remove the subframe from below? We will of course assume that pretty much all of the front suspension and necessary steering components will be removed for the purposes of this job - would need to do that anyway even if I went down the welding route. That would still leave lots of pipes/wires attached to and/or running through the subframe (which would require removal) but could removal of the subframe be achieved from below by NOT having to lower the engine? Last item to detach would of course be the engine mounts!

Any thoughts or words of wisdom appreciated.

Cheers, D

 

[Dhanj]

A pic of the engine (sitting on the subframe) being lowered from a QP5 to give you an idea of what I am thinking.

 

[Gp79]

Not a QP but I replaced the front subframe on my GS by supporting the engine (engine crane and jacks) and dropping the frame complete with the suspension and steering rack.
Then swapped everything over to be new frame, sounds simple eh?
Be prepared for 3-4 weeks if you DIY as you’ll find a lot more that needs powder coating or replaced.
Good luck

 

[Dhanj]

Thanks mate. I have got the whole of winter and plenty of space!

That subframe must be heavy enough as it is without the shock towers, steering rack, discs etc attached to it! How the **** did you get it out like that! 2/3 man job?! Lol

What was the last nut to go before it landed on your foot? Lol

 

[safrane]

Phil has done a QP subframe, he's your best man to talk to.

 

[Gp79]

Thanks mate. I have got the whole of winter and plenty of space!

That subframe must be heavy enough as it is without the shock towers, steering rack, discs etc attached to it! How the **** did you get it out like that! 2/3 man job?! Lol

What was the last nut to go before it landed on your foot? Lol

Haha, was a bit of a job but all single handed.
Access to everything and the rust everything seized needing penetrant fluid and heat to remove was the biggest challenge.
I bought a few extra jacks so could lower it steadily!
Yes bare frame is heavy enough on its own!
Get under it now and spray all the mounting bolts with penetration fluid so it has a few months to free things up.

 

[conaero]

Dhanj, good to hear from you again
We have an 04 QP DS in with the same issue.

We have sourced a used SF and are repalacing it.

It will be inspected, some minor welding then powder coated and filled with Waxol.

The engine is not being removed but suspended.

If you want to pop down and have a look we are in Southampton. PM me and I will let you know when we are due to fit it

 

[philw696]

Yeah I did one single handed up in Yorkshire on a two post lift.
Left the engine in and dropped the subframe.
Got a good used one from David Askew £700 if I remember.
Stripping the suspension meant rebushing the lot.
Changed coil springs too as severely rusted and one broken.
Used transmission jacks and a lot of work and WD 40.

 

[philw696]

 

[philw696]

 

[philw696]

 

[philw696]

The rust had got hold of this one everywhere and in my opinion they are not the best of quality to start with.
I certainly wouldn't be welding one.

 

[Dhanj]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Makes me feel a bit better knowing I am not the only one. That old strength in numbers syndrome.

To be fair, I have known about the issue for 5 odd years. I did my best to grind off the rust and protect it, but it was inevitable it would fail at some point.

And thanks for that Matt. I will PM you. My bday today. Great bday present from an MOT guy! Lol That said, probably a blessing. Needed a kick up the bum to deal with this.

 

[philw696]

Happy Birthday and enjoy your day.
They are all fixable.

 

[conaero]

As we say to everyone with a QPV/GT, you must have the underside treated. Nearly every one that comes in has it done. All cars from 2012 and older are going and the longer you leave it, the worse it gets.

Initial problems start in the triangle box section bracing the upper wishbone mounts. Water sits inside and rusts from the inside out.

To inspect, clean the area and if you see a brown line, poke it with a screwdriver and you will be horrified at what you find.

So new to 7 years they are ok but older than that and the problems start.

Here is the terminal one if left, peeled away by hand:

 

[Gp79]

Still can’t get over having to deal with these rust issues on cars this age and brand.
I just scrapped a 2002 Audi A3 and there was pretty much zero rust on the underside, it was scrapped due to ecu issues and zero value so time for something new.

 

[conaero]

Still can’t get over having to deal with these rust issues on cars this age and brand.
I just scrapped a 2002 Audi A3 and there was pretty much zero rust on the underside, it was scrapped due to ecu issues and zero value so time for something new.

Indeed but a simple £200 treatment stops it.

everyone should minimum treat the box section at home:
1: jack and remove road wheel
2: locate upper inner wishbone inboard mounts
3: flood Kurust (or similar) into the triangle box section from either end.
4: leave overnight then flood cavity with Waxol clear.

It will take no more than an hour a side and cost £25.

 

[Dhanj]

I did treat mine the once about 5 yrs ago. So I guess at 15 yrs old my QP hasn't done too bad. It has been dry stored/housed pretty much all it's life too, which probably helped to prolong things.

 

[TimR]

Yeah I did one single handed up in Yorkshire on a two post lift.
Left the engine in and dropped the subframe.
Got a good used one from David Askew £700 if I remember.
Stripping the suspension meant rebushing the lot.
Changed coil springs too as severely rusted and one broken.
Used transmission jacks and a lot of work and WD 40.

Rebushing..? You mean re-shimming to put geo back straight, or literally, pressing out all flanbloc bushes, replacing, & re- shimming it straight too..?
Interested as I know others have gone this route...McGrath pretty much said it was pointless to try as there is a high risk of cracking the arms around the bushes...!!

 

[Zep]

Rebushing..? You mean re-shimming to put geo back straight, or literally, pressing out all flanbloc bushes, replacing, & re- shimming it straight too..?
Interested as I know others have gone this route...McGrath pretty much said it was pointless to try as there is a high risk of cracking the arms around the bushes...!!

This is a QPV, the process of replacing the bushes is a lot simpler than that for a Coupe. However it is very possible on both.