Torque Tube and Bell housing removed..........

[CraigWaterman11]

Okay well I removed the torque tube and the bell housing and...........I still don't see the issue. Started a new thread because I don't remember where the other one is at.
Here's some pics, the PP fingers aren't collapsed that I can see. Additionally one person can remove the torque tube might be a little difficult but it can be done........I didn't have a clutch alignment tool as per the service manual so I didn't pull the clutch pack yet.....I will maybe next week. But as of yet I still don't see the issue. Now that I see that the PP is the single tang I am debating whether I should replace the clutch and everything since I have it out with a double tang PP. Only problem I see there is it only read 35% wear when it was scanned last.

 

[conaero]

Craig

Sterling effort on doing that. Any chance you have more pics and you could do a how to clutch change?

Did you use a car lift or do it on the floor.

The clutch tangs are not bent, I would leave that clutch there if it's ok mate.

 

[2b1ask1]

Excellent I will be doing my own clutch when it is needed so thanks for posting the photos.

 

[conaero]

Excellent I will be doing my own clutch when it is needed so thanks for posting the photos.

Newton, if you want to do it at mine you can use the lift and I'll help if you return the favour?

 

[2b1ask1]

No problem Matt, I have the use of four posters, gearbox lifts and all sorts just over the road when the time comes but on current wear rates I should have 25-30k left in it! Pending a tang collapse or bearing failure I should be good for a while. I think it should be a bit of a party when it happens as plenty want to know it can be done DIY...

 

[conaero]

No problem Matt, I have the use of four posters, gearbox lifts and all sorts just over the road when the time comes but on current wear rates I should have 25-30k left in it! Pending a tang collapse or bearing failure I should be good for a while. I think it should be a bit of a party when it happens as plenty want to know it can be done DIY...

Ok I'll come down and assist and document. Do you fancy trailing an SportsMaserati CC clutch?

 

[2b1ask1]

Yes if the timings work out ok, I'm more than happy to give it a whirl; PM heading over

 

[philw696]

Having done my oil pump on the floor and spent a good few hours underneath I reckon its probably just as easy doing the clutch that way.
It was explained to me that taking the rear subframe mounting bolts out that you can roll the box back enough on the subframe with the rear wheels enough to get the torque tube down.
Removing the bell housing and clutch assembly being the easy bit.

 

[CatmanV2]

Ok I'll come down and assist and document. Do you fancy trailing an SportsMaserati CC clutch?

If he doesn't mine might be EOL earlier.....

C

 

[2b1ask1]

I'm more than happy to trial any new parts, the clutch would be awesome, if the timings work out for us. I assume this is 430 based so double tang etc?

We have a member on-board to do the electronics side of things, including resetting the PIS etc.

To get the use of the facilities over the road, it would need to be a Friday 08.30 start till 18.00 and a Saturday 09.00 till 13.00 ish. With a team in place this should be very doable. I can strip the boot in advance etc.

 

[CraigWaterman11]

I took quite a few photos so I will add them. I actually did do this on the floor. For me it made it easier than using a lift because I didn't have anyone to help out. Additionally I used a Jack on the rear half of the torque tube to hold it up as I shook it loose from the bell housing. The car is sitting on four different 8x8" wooden cradles stacked up. It's about 3' in the air. This way I could climb under the car in any direction.

The gear box will easily come from under the back end. It's best to just take it completely out of the way. It's the easiest gearbox todate I have removed. Your taking out the bolts to the half shafts, and then push the halfs shafts over you do not need to take them off of the car. None of the suspension needs to be compromised. The service manual stated to remove the tie rods but there's no need to. The emergency brake cable was a bit of a hassle because it's wedge on top of the torque tube but it's not difficult just take your time. I will post more pics later today. But after you take the torque tube bolts off and the rear cross member it drops right out. I do praise them in that they designed it that way. The wiring harness, F1 system, is all contained on the gearbox. The quick disconnect hydraulic lines are all conducive to being dropped out of the car without splitting open that hydraulic system.

But coming back to the clutch issue of whether to change it.....I had a friend post pics on Maserati life of a clutch he replaced at 10,000 miles on a GS because his thrust bearing was failing. His wear reading was supposedly only 45-50% gone. The discs are supposed to be 9mm thick brand new, 4.5 mm is worn right to the rivets. He posted photos with a digital caliper of the clutch that was removed from the car and it measured just at 5.8mm thick which further lends credence to the fact the computer is more of a guesstimate than science. The kick in the seat of the pants was that I only had 35% wear on my clutch and his disc in side by side comparison is thicker! Which means my clutch does need to be replaced. I'm going to take it out next week and measure it with a digital caliper. I will post pics of that as well. I have a thrust bearing already from Hill Engineering from the UK. The bell housing is sitting in my spare bedroom and I will take photos of that as well and post them.

 

[2b1ask1]

That's terrific Craig well done. I get the whole idea about the computer reading being a guestimate but it is the best information we have to go on short of taking the clutch out..

 

[CraigWaterman11]

It's true, I know. I guess when buying a vehicle you are thinking it's close to accurate, at least initially. But it doesn't take into account so many factors and the main one being the driving style of the person, whether it be constantly slipping the clutch on take offs or mashing the gas pedal to the floor after every stop. All of which is a key indicator for clutch wear. But in either case it doesn't matter to me now because I'm going to replace it. It's was just my random thoughts on the clutch wear algorithm I suppose.

Here are a few photos...

This is a photo of one of the half shafts that you push forward.....I took this photo when I separately removed the actuator....but this is what I'm suggesting so you cut down removing both completely off the car...

This is the gear box already removed.....I relocated the F1 Res. to the trunk which is why you don't see it on the box. It added another dimension for me but this won't be a problem for normal folks......I mentioned it somewhere else here but to keep it all in the same thread....

Use a 15mm "S" wrench for the top torque tube bolts on the gear box side. All of the torque tube bolts on both sides take a 15mm wrench.....8 on each side...16 total on both sides. If you don't want to just drop the gear box, and you are replacing the clutch.....Do yourself a favor drop your exhaust out first. Then you can lower the gear box a bit so you have more room to work on top of the torque tube. The half shafts use a 13mm 12 point wrench or socket. The transmission/gear box cross-member bolts are 13 mm as well.

​

Photo for reference of the torque tube bolts on the bell housing side; also the hydraulic line is attached on top of the torque tube all the bolts are 10mm for the clips:

​

All of the nuts on the bell housing are 15mm as well EXCEPT the bolts going into the starter.....they are 13mm...(shown below)

You can use a deep well 15mm socket with extensions to access all of the rest of the Bell housing bolts. If you have an impact it will be really easy, if not you'll need a breaker bar for some of them....

The Red wire is the F1 sensor wire....you will need to push it off it's plastic mounting so you can access the harness to disconnect it:

Before I forget there is a cross member that you'll need to take off to drop the secondary cats and down pipes down and needs to be out of the way to drop the bell housing. It's 2 bolts each side 13mm, the sway bar doesn't need to be taken off the car just disconnect it, 13mm two nuts each side and swing it down out of your way. I will try to take more photos next week when I get back under the car.

Here's the thrust bearing and bell housing:

​

I showed the clutch pack above in the original posting, and I will post more photos later when I change the thrust bearing.

 

[2b1ask1]

Craig, I'm sure you are already aware but the clutch release/assembly position is monitored by a small magnet in there that is essential it goes back in the right way around; not seen one myself yet so I can't give any more information but just passing on that nugget of info from the Maserati mechanic that gave it to me apparently it can be put back in either way around but the wrong way and it doesn't function and it is an awfully big job to get back in there to correct.

 

[2b1ask1]

sh@g pile carpet in the garage???

 

[CatmanV2]

sh@g pile carpet in the garage???

He's a Boston bean

I'll be taking a collection for the Craig Waterman gratitude fund so I can force feed him beer next time I'm in Boston (February I suspect)

C

 

[CraigWaterman11]

sh@g pile carpet in the garage???

Yes the service manual states how it has to be removed I believe. That's why I needed the clutch alignment tool as well. You have to mark the clutch in position with the PP, and flywheel because it has a counter balance point. It's why I wanted to wait to wrap my head around it next week......it is a bit involved.

Ahhhh so you like the ****?! Okay so no that's my spare bed room with my weight set and all misc. stuff like Automotive paint, and parts. The **** carpet came from a kid that was in Boston for College. His dad owned a company out of South America and the kid basically found out college was hard and wanted to go back home. I picked it up for free helping a friend with a couch he bought from him. It was a $1000 carpet but it's not that easy on the eyes so into the weight room the area rug went!! LOL!

 

[Evo Cymru]

Brilliant work again Craig - hope it all goes well!

 

[CraigWaterman11]

I can't believe it blocked out **** or shagg from the post above.....is that a bad word over there in the UK? Completely random question I know but I re-read the post and it was all ********* out which was strange to me.

 

[CatmanV2]

**** = f8ck

C