4200 problems!

[ps1]

Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum and this is my first post so forgive me if this isn't the place to post! I have been on Maserati Forum and already received excellent advice, but was prompted to post here too as I need advice on some issues that have come up with my beautiful 4200.

I have recently purchased her, a 2005 cambiocorsa, that I absolutely adore, bought from Nareman (Nuvola Maserati), who i cannot speak too highly of. She drives beautifully, and the Larini back boxes that came already mounted put out an incredible sound. I've been told that there is also a fly-by-wire (formula dynamics) installed that is apparently a good thing too!

I have had a few issues come up however, that I have had checked out at the yearly service, but I was told that there were no major issues. I was hoping someone might have had similar problems?

1) Every time i start the car up cold there is a rattling from the exhaust. Only in first second or 2 of startup and never when idling. Only happens if car is cold, never when warmed up or just used. I am told this is likely coming from the manifold - is this something i should/need to do something about?

2) With the cold weather that's arrived, first thing in the morning the info centre keeps rebooting itself continuously until the car heats up a bit. While it keeps switching on and off I can't do anything with the buttons as none of them work. So i just keep driving and eventually after 20 mins or so it stops and works as if nothing was wrong. If it's a warmer morning then it works fine. Possibly loose wires, but i don't understand why it ends up working fine once temp goes up?

3) And most important issue at moment- Recently after purchase the yellow engine warning light came on. I brought it back to Nareman who reset the battery and said that should do it. However after a few days the yellow engine warning light came on again. I told Nareman and he said, as the service was due, Lancaster in Colchester would sort it out. Unfortunately they said the diagnostics were normal, and that everything was fine. The car is running seemlessly, but the light came on again a few days after getting her back from Lancaster. I called them and they said they didn't know what it was but that it wasn't anything to worry about as no diagnostic codes came up at service. I therefore took it to my local garage and they said the diagnostics showed it to be an emission problem and that the cats were bunged up and I had to drive the car on the motorway for a bit (i tend to commute in town only so low speeds). He also gave me an injector cleaner agent to add to petrol which I did twice. He did battery reset and light went out. I did all he suggested but light keeps coming on, and only way to get rid of it is battery reset but only for a few days. My mechanic has suggested getting the cats reconditioned/cleaned... Does anyone have any experience of this? New cats are >£2500 so hoping to avoid this expense, although i here the Larini sports cats are awesome!!! Happy to drive with light on if it's not a problem as car still drives amazingly. I told Nareman about this ongoing problem hoping he would cover it with warranty, but he unfortunately told me that if there is a cat problem this will not be covered in his warranty as it is "wear and tear". He suggested bringing the car to Giallo in Kent, but again at my expense. Lancaster weren't too helpful and said that they couldn't see any faults with the car and that the diagnostics had been clear. Maserati Forum have suggested that perhaps this problem should be covered by warranty, but as Nareman has been so good and approachable ever since i bought the car (i had to have the whole handbreak changed when i did the first service at Lancaster only a couple of months after purchase, and he covered this part of the service), i don't want to be unreasonable if the cats are genuinely not covered in the warranty. The problem however was there within a month of buying the car. Does anyone have any experience of warranty and how much i should push for cover, and whether i should push Nareman to look into it more?

Sorry about massively long first post! It's so cool to be a part of this world though!! Thanks

P

 

[Chrisbassett]

I'd suggest getting a cheap OBD2 reader and next time the light comes on plug it in and see what codes it comes up with.

 

[safrane]

Welcome to this site.

The first issue could as you suggest be the manifolds. They are double skinned and if they split apart the inner one rattles against the outer one. There was a post on here where a garage had cut and re welded them together. Or it could be the variatiors which hild oil at the top of the engine to assist with wear prevention when starting from cold.

Second point I think is going to be a wiring issue. The NIT in you arm rest is where all the gubbins are and it is easy to get to. Again there is a post on here by David Howeson on how to access the NIT.

Third part is going to be the Lambada sensors either picking up a fault or being faulty themselves. You will only know with the code.

I suggest you contact Emblem in Poole, arrange for them to do their FREE Saturday service where they will inspect the car for you. Leave it with them on a Friday and they will see the issues you state. As I said this is free and the guys there will not pressure you to use them for repairs and will also advice you which ones are more urgent.

Re warranties, Nareman will not loose out if the warranty is claimed on as he will have bought it off a third party (its just an insurance policy) so do not feel bad about making a claim...but you will need to read the small print.

One last thing you are entitled by law to three months cover...if the car is not fit for purpose you can take it back a d they have to fix it or refund you.

 

[CatmanV2]

The manifold issue is well know, but I wonder if 1 and 3 are linked? Some of the cats *might* be breaking up. You could get an endoscope into the lambda sensor holes to check.

Not going to comment on the warranty queries. Others here are far more well versed than I, but there are plenty of alternatives.

Glad you're enjoying it. I have an OBDII reader that links to the torque app if you want to head up to Harlow, but they are button on ebay. Also our well respected genius Voicey has a pretty much full on diagnostic kit that he can be persuaded to plug in to your new baby.

C

 

[maverick]

For option three , if the cats are cloged you could try Terraclean as advitised by edd china of wheeler dealers tv program , I think it's only about £80 . The treatment basically de cokes your engine right though to the end of your exhuast. .

 

[AG2728]

1) Every time i start the car up cold there is a rattling from the exhaust. Only in first second or 2 of startup and never when idling. Only happens if car is cold, never when warmed up or just used. I am told this is likely coming from the manifold - is this something i should/need to do something about?
P

Mine does exactly the same. It did it when I bought it and still does it to this day. Have checked for the exhausts fouling and adjusted/modified the heat shields etc. but it still rattles for that 1st few seconds. I got told that the exhaust manifolds are double skinned and interference between the inner and the outer skins, when cold can cause this. This made sense to me and sounds like it is exactly where the sound seems to be coming from on the nearside bank.

As it has - a) Not got any worse. b) Is an expensive job to replace a manifold. c) Is doing no harm whatsoever, apart from the minor annoyance to me, I decided that the best course of action is to just put my fingers in my ears and say la la la for a few seconds before driving off. I can confirm that this solution does work and is very cost effective. If I ever need the engine out for other work, then I will probably address it but otherwise I will live with it. HTH.

 

[conaero]

Welcome P, we don't allow multiple threads about a single issue, so I have merged them all in to this one.

 

[voicey]

Where in London are you? If you can get the car over to SE3 when the light is on I will put it on my proper diagnostic machine (FOC). We can then take it from there.

 

[mjheathcote]

I have a pair of standard (euro 4 bolt) cat pipes that I bought earlier in the year for a DIY sport cat conversion. The gentlemen I bought them from had a cat error code on one side however both sides were replaced, and he kept the old ones.
I've contacted the gentleman this morning to ask whether he can remember which side was bad, but he can't recall but he thinks it is visually broken up on inspection, which I can look next week (they are in storage at work).
So if you discover one side requires CAT replacement there is a 50/50 chance I can help you!
I'm after no monetary gain just your failed side back in exchange.
If this can possibly help if a warranty claim fails let me know.

 

[CraigWaterman11]

I know this is a somewhat dumb question but do you guys have two sets of cats like we do in the U.S. Pre-cats and Secondary or just just one set? I was thinking you guys normally have euro headers on your cars, right as the name implies or is that incorrect?

Chris and Voicey, I think you can pick up the O2 sensor data with both a regular OBD2 scan tool or the Texa to see if the sensors are operating correctly. If you purchased the Torque Pro App. I remember getting sensor data on it last time I checked.

It seems to me this gentleman had a problem from purchase with the cats. The answers they gave him don't add up. There's no way the CEL stays lit and there are no codes associated with it. Additionally, there's no way they just kept resetting the CEL without knowing what code was being thrown, not at those type shops. Sounds like to me they kept resetting it because they knew they didn't want to foot the bill. I find it a very odd occurrence that the he left the dealership and within a month the light toggles and after multiple resets it still comes back on. I was born at night but not last night. It's not normal for the CEL light to stay on regardless. Additionally if the light is already on what if something else happens you need to know about. If the light is already on you'd never know it. I'm not trying to be pessimistic here, just realistic. This wouldn't be the first time a car dealer has done thing to avoid a bill and then say it's a normal "wear and tear" item. It's not a normal "wear and tear" item if you knew they needed replacing when you sold the car. Sorry this type of stuff burns me up.

 

[mjheathcote]

I know this is a somewhat dumb question but do you guys have two sets of cats like we do in the U.S. Pre-cats and Secondary or just just one set? I was thinking you guys normally have euro headers on your cars, right as the name implies or is that incorrect?

Chris and Voicey, I think you can pick up the O2 sensor data with both a regular OBD2 scan tool or the Texa to see if the sensors are operating correctly. If you purchased the Torque Pro App. I remember getting sensor data on it last time I checked.

It seems to me this gentleman had a problem from purchase with the cats. The answers they gave him don't add up. There's no way the CEL stays lit and there are no codes associated with it. Additionally, there's no way they just kept resetting the CEL without knowing what code was being thrown, not at those type shops. Sounds like to me they kept resetting it because they knew they didn't want to foot the bill. I find it a very odd occurrence that the he left the dealership and within a month the light toggles and after multiple resets it still comes back on. I was born at night but not last night. It's not normal for the CEL light to stay on regardless. Additionally if the light is already on what if something else happens you need to know about. If the light is already on you'd never know it. I'm not trying to be pessimistic here, just realistic. This wouldn't be the first time a car dealer has done thing to avoid a bill and then say it's a normal "wear and tear" item. It's not a normal "wear and tear" item if you knew they needed replacing when you sold the car. Sorry this type of stuff burns me up.

Euro cat cars have 2 cats per bank, like yours.
Unlike your US cat cars the first cat is mounted just after the headers, rather than built in, and the second is after the squashed section, like yours.
The last lambda sensor on Euro cat cars is mounted after the first cat, so the second cat is not monitored or even required to pass our emission tests.
To complicate things slightly, the last run of Euro cars actually have US cat exhausts fitted, mostly likely to use up stock!
I agree with you regarding the warranty claim, cats should be covered.

 

[ps1]

Cats problem

Wow!! Thanks so much for all the info and so quickly!! And sorry for the newby error for multiple posts - wasn't sure where I should be...

I have booked car in for a full diagnostic and will go from there as to whether it localises which side etc. My mechanic knows a company that overhauls the cats for not too much money (~£300) but will post any updates on this front. I suppose if Nareman has said that he won't cover the cats as part of his warranty i shouldn't push it, but the fault yellow warning light came on within a few weeks of buying the car, although i have now had it for 4 months... He's a decent guy and if he could cover it with the warranty I guess he would... But if he's not footing the bill but his warranty company is, maybe I shouldn't give up so easily?

Thanks again for all the help however - it really is so awesome being a part of this world!

As far as 4bolt/2bolt US vs Europe cats etc, the research i did on it brought out this pdf which has helped clear it up for me from this forum - so hope it's helpful. http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/uploads/maserati_4200_exhaust.pdf

P

 

[CraigWaterman11]

Well we do mirror you somewhat in Lamba positions. It's before and after the first cat. Actually my Mercedes is the same way which is why I usually when I get a car just gut the secondary cats. If they are not monitored, not needed! Lol.....Well I envy the fact your cats are after your headers. But sorry to hear that they still used over stock there. I love Maserati but I get exhausted with corners they cut as a company sometimes.

Okay so you guys do have two sets of cats just not one on the header. Sad really. I gutted my primary cats and flashed the ecu not to pick up the second of the lambda sensors when I first got the car because I didn't want to run the risk of premature primary cat detonation. Being that the cats in the U.S. are on the headers that ceramic hexagonal material can also back draft up through the exhaust ports (new motor anyone?). Actually the discussion just resurfaced again on ML about gutting pre-cats, or putting aftermarket headers on. I just hate the fact people see Maserati, and the same stainless steel is priced two to three times higher.

 

[CraigWaterman11]

PS1 I'm sorry again I'm not trying to be that guy......but the reason why the check engine light wasn't on when you first picked it up was because they reset it. Your car has to go through multiple starts and anywhere between sometimes a couple hundred miles or sometimes as little as 30-60 miles before it will reaffirm the check engine light again. It has to cycle. Which is why it took weeks for it to toggle once you purchased it. Think of the mileage you drove in that time period. As a point of reference here in the U.S. they plug your car into a state issued computer. If the computer tells that person the car isn't ready, meaning a new battery was placed in the car or someone reset the car's computer they put a rejection sticker on the car until you have driven the car the needed mileage before the car has run through all it's system and emissions checks. Additionally, for Massachusetts if the car doesn't pass inspection you can bring it back to the dealer. They either have to fix the issues until it passes or they have to give you your money back. If it fails for a safety issue the car cannot be driven at all. The sticker has a red "R", in this case any police officer can see it driving by. Emissions related failure like cats is a black "R" in the sticker which gives you I think 30-60 days so you can drive the car on the streets long enough to reach the required mileage, and cycles.

PS I appreciate the link above.

 

[CatmanV2]

'Clogged' cats would be a new one on me as well.

C

 

[conaero]

The rattling on startup that goes once warm will be the headers/manifolds. They are dual skinned and come loose over time. As the heat expands the rattling stops. Either new manifolds (£K's) or you can have them removed and welded up for about £500.

 

[voicey]

Get the error codes and the fuel trims and post them up. If the CEL is lit there will be codes logged, no question. I would want to rule out sensor failure or any other issue before running out to buy new cats.

PS: It is interested that you guys have pre and main cats and air injection. Usually, the pre-cats are for cold start emissions, something which is mitigated by air injection.

 

[CraigWaterman11]

Voicey I have to be honest.... I think the U.S. puts dumb requirements in place as well. We don't have the 3200 in the U.S. because if I recall one on the issues was the hockey stick tail lighting at the time was an issue. Go figure now we have Audi and everything else running identical designs and they come right through port.

I agree with you as well about checking the data on his car before assuming something. I just find it crazy they are acting like they don't know what's going on when it's clear they are in this business. If they weren't I would give them reasonable doubt. Because they are it makes me wonder what they are hiding.

 

[ps1]

Will get codes and post them asap. I do feel like i'm being played about a little bit. Especially by Lancaster who i specifically asked to look into this problem. Nareman from Nuvola has been incredible from the aftersales point of view and I can't fault his approachability and decency from the beginning - but having said that if the warranty should cover it, then i'm a little worried he's also fobbing me off!

Anyway - codes first and we'll go from there.

Thanks so much everyone.

P

 

[zagatoes30]

The rattling on startup that goes once warm will be the headers/manifolds. They are dual skinned and come loose over time. As the heat expands the rattling stops. Either new manifolds (£K's) or you can have them removed and welded up for about £500.

My right hand bank does this, Emblem picked it up on initial inspection. They recommended leaving it until it either got worse (it never has) or until the manifold has to come off for some reason, seemed good advice to me.