4200 problems!
- Thread starter ps1
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voicey
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No problem - drop me a line through my website if you wish to get in touch quickly (I can't access this forum from my office): http://aldousvoice.com/contact/
mjheathcote
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You have some very interesting info on your web site, especially cambiocorsa F1 gearbox info.
It would be very interesting if the Ferrari TCU, especially the 360 CS or 430 flashed with the 360 CS map, could be fitted to our 4200/GS cars. Another thread is needed!
voicey
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Thank you. I signed up here as there's a lot of cross over between Ferrari and Maserati but still a lot for me to learn.
With regard to the question about flashing the CS maps onto a 4200, it is beyond my abilities to wield the spanners! The person you need to speak to is Eric Decoux - he's the person who has made the re-flashing of the TCU's possible.
mikeey_boiy
Junior Member
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Hi ps1, I am also a relatively new 4200 owner so have zero knowledge when compared to others on here.
One thing I would say is that from your posts I would disagree with your opinion on the dealer. Soon after purchase of mine there was a very small issue. I called the dealer and they booked it in with a specialist at their expense. This soon after purchase i would 100% e pect them to sort it or refund you regardless of warranty.
I however, do not mind falling out with people.
Hope you get it sorted,
Mike
ps1
Junior Member
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Cat problems diagnostics
Hi everyone,
I have the final diagnostic result and codes (attached as jpeg) for my 4200cc.
Codes are:
P0431 Warm up catalyst efficiency below threshold Bank 2
P0421 Warm up catalyst efficiency below threshold Bank 1
I've been told there is no way of cleaning/refurbishing the cats, and all the sensors are otherwise working well. So i guess I either leave things as they are, and keep resetting the battery every few days when the warning light comes on, or I go back to Nareman at Nuvola and push to get them replaced under warranty - although he's already told me they won't be covered as it is a "wear and tear" issue.... As you know, warning light came on after a few weeks of purchase- Nareman solved problem by resetting battery then suggesting Lancaster look into it at the service - and they said there was no problem.... Know Nareman would prob do anything possible as he's been top notch and excellent so far with after-purchase care....except with the cat issue.
Are these codes familiar to anyone, and does anyone have any advice as to how to proceed?
P
Hi everyone,
I have the final diagnostic result and codes (attached as jpeg) for my 4200cc.
Codes are:
P0431 Warm up catalyst efficiency below threshold Bank 2
P0421 Warm up catalyst efficiency below threshold Bank 1
I've been told there is no way of cleaning/refurbishing the cats, and all the sensors are otherwise working well. So i guess I either leave things as they are, and keep resetting the battery every few days when the warning light comes on, or I go back to Nareman at Nuvola and push to get them replaced under warranty - although he's already told me they won't be covered as it is a "wear and tear" issue.... As you know, warning light came on after a few weeks of purchase- Nareman solved problem by resetting battery then suggesting Lancaster look into it at the service - and they said there was no problem.... Know Nareman would prob do anything possible as he's been top notch and excellent so far with after-purchase care....except with the cat issue.
Are these codes familiar to anyone, and does anyone have any advice as to how to proceed?
P
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CraigWaterman11
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In the past I have been criticized on long posts. I do get long winded I know because I want people to understand. I will keep this short. If that data is correct, both sides of your exhaust is shot. Bank 1 and Bank 2 is referencing right and left sides. Last time I saw those codes together in sum it meant you needed to replace both Pre-cats.
First, if those cats are made from the same material mine are.....ceramic hexagonal material...... they cannot be left in there like the metal ones can......ie drive it until power loss giving you time to save money. The ceramic ones come apart and go down stream until the hit something else.....the secondary cats. If/when that happens then you will have another repair bill because it will begin to wipe that one out or it will plug it.
I am running today so you can google those codes if you'd like for an exact definition. Those codes are standard cat codes for most cars.
BTW tell me what the mileage on your car is because are they a normal wear and tear item....yes. At 30,000 or even 50,000 miles no they are not. Here's what the material in the cat looks like btw.....I gutted mine as soon as I knew they were a problem.
This is what will go downstream:
First, if those cats are made from the same material mine are.....ceramic hexagonal material...... they cannot be left in there like the metal ones can......ie drive it until power loss giving you time to save money. The ceramic ones come apart and go down stream until the hit something else.....the secondary cats. If/when that happens then you will have another repair bill because it will begin to wipe that one out or it will plug it.
I am running today so you can google those codes if you'd like for an exact definition. Those codes are standard cat codes for most cars.
BTW tell me what the mileage on your car is because are they a normal wear and tear item....yes. At 30,000 or even 50,000 miles no they are not. Here's what the material in the cat looks like btw.....I gutted mine as soon as I knew they were a problem.
This is what will go downstream:
CraigWaterman11
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Sorry one last thing, run a scope into the bungs of the O2 sensors and you can see whether they have come apart or not yet.
ps1
Junior Member
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Wow....god i hope my cats aren't breaking up like that!! Awesome pics.... But my car has only done 45000 miles....and running like a dream with no power loss or anything.
Also just spoke to Matthew at Giallo who was so helpful. He suggested listening out for a hoover-type noise on startup, coz if it isn't there a cooling pump might have failed which might be the answer... Can't say i've ever heard anything like it, but with the Larini backboxes it might be difficult to hear. Will wait for car to cool down and have a really good listen...
P
Also just spoke to Matthew at Giallo who was so helpful. He suggested listening out for a hoover-type noise on startup, coz if it isn't there a cooling pump might have failed which might be the answer... Can't say i've ever heard anything like it, but with the Larini backboxes it might be difficult to hear. Will wait for car to cool down and have a really good listen...
P
ps1
Junior Member
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Wow....god i hope my cats aren't breaking up like that!! Awesome pics.... But my car has only done 45000 miles....and running like a dream with no power loss or anything.
Also just spoke to Matthew at Giallo who was so helpful. He suggested listening out for a hoover-type noise on startup, coz if it isn't there a cooling pump might have failed which might be the answer... Can't say i've ever heard anything like it, but with the Larini backboxes it might be difficult to hear. Will wait for car to cool down and have a really good listen...
P
Also just spoke to Matthew at Giallo who was so helpful. He suggested listening out for a hoover-type noise on startup, coz if it isn't there a cooling pump might have failed which might be the answer... Can't say i've ever heard anything like it, but with the Larini backboxes it might be difficult to hear. Will wait for car to cool down and have a really good listen...
P
maverick
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Bite the bullet and get your self some sport cats and ask the garage to contribute to the cost or return the car and get get your money back ,a car with faulty cats won't be any good for the garage and there will have to get them fixed at full cost to them . as the car will be well known to the maserati public now by you posting on here there would be no hidding for them . I am sure the garage are being very helpful but at the end of the day there are in the buiseness to make money not be your best friend ,if there want to keep there good reputation there should sort this or at least contribute to it .
Moz1000
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Regarding the hoover sound, there is an air-pump under the bonnet that blows warm air through the cats in order to warm them up quickly when the car is started from cold. The pump is located on the RHS as you look into the engine bay under the right hand plastic trim. Remove the trim and start the engine (cold). If the pump is working you will hear it.
If the pump is working then you need to get an endoscope into the pipes (through the lambda sensor holes) and inspect the cats that way. If found to be damaged, a pair of cats off Ebay might be the answer. I've seen them advertised for £300/pr.
Moz
If the pump is working then you need to get an endoscope into the pipes (through the lambda sensor holes) and inspect the cats that way. If found to be damaged, a pair of cats off Ebay might be the answer. I've seen them advertised for £300/pr.
Moz
CraigWaterman11
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Yes the secondary air system or air injection system helps burn off for the first 2-3 minutes of starting the car. Basically helping to burn the rich condition out of the cats and heat them up quick on initial start up. It's not a cooling pump it's an air injection system to help actually in the opposite to it heat up. I would have thought if that was the case it would have thrown code P0410 or something similar not P0421 and P0431. In either case, for these cars I would never by a cat that's used, and to be honest at least here in the U.S. I wouldn't use a new OEM pre-cat either.
I'm hoping you have one of the forum brothers close by you to help out (in reference to scoping the cats through the bungs). It would make it easier on you if you had someone around. It's not hard to remove the O2s' just be careful that you don't twist the wires too much. I messed around one time after gutting the pre cats I kept getting a P0420 code, and for the life of me I thought the guy didn't flash the ecu for me correctly. He actually flashed it in a way that it would pick up some data but not other data. Make a long story short I must of twisted the wire enough that it slightly fractured internally setting off the MIL.
I'm hoping you have one of the forum brothers close by you to help out (in reference to scoping the cats through the bungs). It would make it easier on you if you had someone around. It's not hard to remove the O2s' just be careful that you don't twist the wires too much. I messed around one time after gutting the pre cats I kept getting a P0420 code, and for the life of me I thought the guy didn't flash the ecu for me correctly. He actually flashed it in a way that it would pick up some data but not other data. Make a long story short I must of twisted the wire enough that it slightly fractured internally setting off the MIL.
ps1
Junior Member
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Thanks. Will listen out for the hoover sound in the morning and if there isn't one get back to Matthew at Giallo to see what he suggests. Presume it would mean getting a new "heater fan" for the cats. If the hoover is there, then i guess i'm back to square one and needing to change the cats... Either way once I know i'll be onto Nareman to get him to sort it out, coz either way something will need to be changed/fixed, and the problem was there pretty much from the beginning.
Has anyone else bought from Nuvola and Nareman and needed major work done on warranty?
P
Has anyone else bought from Nuvola and Nareman and needed major work done on warranty?
P
maverick
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As matt has said iam sure he will do the right thing
voicey
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Before you rush out to buy new cats, the code can also be triggered by...
A failing lambda sensor (unlikely both banks to fail at the same time)
Dodgy wiring (again unlikely for both sides to go at once)
A failing secondary air pump (would affect both sides)
To check the cat efficiency you can compare scope the upstream and downstream signals and overlay them with each other - if both signals are the broadly the same then the cat has had it.
If the cats are toast then you need to understand why they have failed on both banks at the same time. Did you get the fuel trims?
A failing lambda sensor (unlikely both banks to fail at the same time)
Dodgy wiring (again unlikely for both sides to go at once)
A failing secondary air pump (would affect both sides)
To check the cat efficiency you can compare scope the upstream and downstream signals and overlay them with each other - if both signals are the broadly the same then the cat has had it.
If the cats are toast then you need to understand why they have failed on both banks at the same time. Did you get the fuel trims?
ps1
Junior Member
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So I definitely can't hear a Hoover sound on cold startup, so taking car to Giallo tomorrow for a checkup. Worried that if cat heater pump has never worked, that the cats have been damaged as a result... Can't believe Lancaster didn't pick up any of this! Will email Nareman today to ask him to really check out the warranty side of things. He's been an absolute star with everything so far so hoping he'll come up trumps.
P
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