All was going well AND THEN...

[Kyle4200]

Hello F1 pump/relay/Cambiocorsa experts!

I was out driving today and everything seemed normal until... Driving down a slight decline road and the car went into neutral, the gearbox light came on but I managed to get it back into first and make my way around a roundabout, as I left the exit I started to climb a slight incline road, the light came on again and the car went back into neutral - this time no luck in getting it back into gear, I pulled over and called the recovery guys after a few attempts of restarting and resetting. When I got it back home 'on a flat drive' I could hear the F1 pump squirm as if it had run out of batteries... It runs a little longer then usual but it sounded painful. No luck in restarting either, just stays in the N position. Now my logical thinking is:
1). F1 Fluid low (incline/decline) caused it to throw a wobbly. Maybe a leak? No evidence
2). F1 Pump is dead - I had recently changed the F1 relay (BMW) as a preventative measure.

Help Please!

 

[conaero]

As an incline was involved both times I would say your low on CC fluid or your relay is playing up.

I have never used this guy but I do know he is well respected: http://www.fioranosportscars.co.uk

If not, try Mike at Maserati Shed just up the road Nr Wickham: www.maseratished.co.uk

Try and put the old relay back in and make sure your battery positive piggyback terminals are tight.

Then once you have done all this, switch the battery off for a couple of hours (remembering not to shut the boot) then back on again and see if that sorts it.

If I was to put my money on the fault I would say the pump has had it. Not too expensive just a little bit involved to replace it. You can use the Alfa Selespeed pump which is about £175. There is a guide on here somewhere but its basically the boot spare wheel tub out.

If you want me to pop round and have a look I am over in Eastleigh tomorrow so could come over about 5ish, if its drivable, bring it over to TGI's in sedgensworth at 6pm and me and my bro can take a look at it.

 

[safrane]

Your prognosis sound on the mark to be honest.

 

[CatmanV2]

Yeah, I'd go with low fluid and / or shot pump.

C

 

[Kyle4200]

Cheers for the replies,

Today's findings are: The Cambicorsa fluid reservoir is empty! At some point today a whole litre has emptied out pretty rapidly - within the first 5 mins of starting the engine and driving the car gearbox light came on and opted for neutral. This I would say is not a slow leak over time and just 'happened', to find the source I'll now order the correct oil (help again as the Agip CHF is no longer available? Can I use Shell S4 ATF (Red)? I'll fill the tank up, then prime the pump (if that doesn't fail on me), then see from there where the said leak is coming from, the pump was looking surisingly new in comparison with the other components and as the heat shield wasn't secured properly (previous owner) I'm guessing it's already been replaced at some stage.



I'll order whatever oil I need tomorrow and hopefully sort this issue out soon.

 

[conaero]

Well that sounds like it should be easily fixable. Fill it with fluid and cycle the box and it should be pretty quick to find. Hopefully it won't be from inside the bell housing.

 

[maverick]

As an incline was involved both times I would say your low on CC fluid or your relay is playing up.

I have never used this guy but I do know he is well respected: http://www.fioranosportscars.co.uk

If not, try Mike at Maserati Shed just up the road Nr Wickham: www.maseratished.co.uk

Try and put the old relay back in and make sure your battery positive piggyback terminals are tight.

Then once you have done all this, switch the battery off for a couple of hours (remembering not to shut the boot) then back on again and see if that sorts it.

If I was to put my money on the fault I would say the pump has had it. Not too expensive just a little bit involved to replace it. You can use the Alfa Selespeed pump which is about £175. There is a guide on here somewhere but its basically the boot spare wheel tub out.

If you want me to pop round and have a look I am over in Eastleigh tomorrow so could come over about 5ish, if its drivable, bring it over to TGI's in sedgensworth at 6pm and me and my bro can take a look at it.

I use Dave for my servicing , top bloke !

 

[RJ237]

Cheers for the replies,

Today's findings are: The Cambicorsa fluid reservoir is empty! At some point today a whole litre has emptied out pretty rapidly - within the first 5 mins of starting the engine and driving the car gearbox light came on and opted for neutral. This I would say is not a slow leak over time and just 'happened', to find the source I'll now order the correct oil (help again as the Agip CHF is no longer available? Can I use Shell S4 ATF (Red)? I'll fill the tank up, then prime the pump (if that doesn't fail on me), then see from there where the said leak is coming from, the pump was looking surisingly new in comparison with the other components and as the heat shield wasn't secured properly (previous owner) I'm guessing it's already been replaced at some stage.



I'll order whatever oil I need tomorrow and hopefully sort this issue out soon.

Kyle, Pentosin CHF 11S should be available. ATF fluids don't have the same properties as the hydraulic fluids to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Kyle4200]

Kyle, Pentosin CHF 11S should be available. ATF fluids don't have the same properties as the hydraulic fluids to the best of my knowledge.

The only reason I went for the Shell ATF, was that after lots of researching - all the other F1 boxes (F355, 360, F430, 599 & early Granturismo) all specify Shell Donax TX (Now replaced with Shell Spirax S4 ATF HDX, which is a higher spec, the early 4200 specified all the AGIP products (even engine oil). I'm guessing a partnership as Ferrari has with Shell. My logic is the Ferrari 599 is the last of the 'original' F1-boxes - and that states the Donax TX as does the 2006 Granturismo, so the Cambiocorsa should be fine with it as the pumps are a shared technology.

 

[RJ237]

Great info, thanks.

 

[Kyle4200]

*UPDATE*

I've now located the source of the leak, it's one of the high pressure EV pipes (gearbox end), where they all group together through a clamp, lost about 1/4 litre engaging first gear yesterday, the pump seems to be okay - for now. Looking at about £200 for a used one or £400 for new, depending how long it will take to fit, anyone else had a pipe fail on them from the Cambicorsa box?

 

[conaero]

Good, get a price for a new one from Ross at Meridien, mention Matt and Sportsmaserati and you'll get a health discount.

Buy new, use is a false economy.

 

[2b1ask1]

Take the pipes into a local hydraulic company (I use Abbey Hoses) and get them made up, they are all standard fittings, I know Voicey has done this recently for his 430, just tell them it is for an Alfa or you will scare them!

 

[safrane]

Newtons point us spot on...

Had two quotes to paint the wing mirror shell on my first Maserati from a local smart repair co.
£100 when told it was a Maserati.
£25 when I phoned later and said it was an Alfa.

 

[Kyle4200]

Just a few images to show the process of finding the 'F1-Fluid' leak, the steel braided pipe (EV5), was rubbing against the support guide and over 14 years of gear changing, finally wore through, it would have been an instant failure to as it's a high pressure line. *Please note I've made the split worse by opening the braided cable up more - to make the split in the plastic pipe easier to view.
I'm now in the process of sourcing a new hydraulic pipe and will post up once I've fitted a new one.


Boot lining & heat shield out.


Cambiocorsa reservoir filler cap (empty).


Very oily Actuator, on the right track.


EV pipe support guide, EV5 is the bottom one (split).


EV5 Pipe removed (15 mins, rear raised & wheels off).


Time to order a replacement, standard Banjo pipe.

 

[allandwf]

Good job, and pics. It will also help others. Hope its all sorted soon enough.

 

[voicey]

Don't bother with genuine parts - get a new hose made up locally. You will need an SD3 to bleed the system once it has been refitted and take note of the pressure drops during each gearchange as the fluid running dry can damage other parts of the system.

 

[gingeh721]

Emblem had pirtek make a new braided hose for my 4200 when this happened to me. Much cheaper and it was fitted that day.

 

[Kyle4200]

*Update*

New pipe ordered and delivered £32.00, will fit this on the weekend - I shouldn't need the SD/2/3 for the bleed as have the clutch pipe can be easily disconnected, so when I prime the F1 pump (open/shut the door) and select through the gears it (should) self bleed, I'll probably use a little more oil this way though, call it the 'old fashioned way'.

Cheers lads

 

[Gp79]

Good, cheap result.

Saw an f1 pump had been replaced on the forum and bled without SD2/3 so you should be alright.