F1 pump not heard when unlocking/opening door concern....

James

James

New Member
Messages
36
I know a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but the wealth of information on this forum has now made me a little suspicious.

Last night, I noticed that I could not hear the whirring of the F1 Pump when I unlocked/opened the drivers door on my 4200 CC (2004), although the car is driving very normally and certainly no issues with gear change or odd noises from the gearbox.
I am in noisy London and may be going deaf so I will find a quiet spot to double check if I can hear the pump, but in doing some research last night on this subject, lots of questions have come up - specifically does the F1 pump have run every time you unlock/open the door? (after a short period of time).

Based on the forum comments, I have just order a replacement F1 pump relay and will check the fuses (not sure which fuse) but then it seems I would need to change the F1 pump, but before doing this, what should I be looking for to work out the possible reason why the pump does not work (whir for 5 seconds) on opening the drivers door?

Any insight would be welcome.

Thank you
James
 
conaero

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,639
James, if the car drives normally the pump must be working so I would check this again in an quiet area.

If the pump was to fail you would have no hydraulic pressure and thus, no gear changes or clutch.

You are wise to change the relay, its good maintenance. I am sure you know this but its above the battery in the drivers side rear wing and the fuse is next to it I believe.

Your best off pulling the battery compartment carpet material so you can see exactly what you are doing. You can do it without, see the pic below for a blind reference.

To do this:
1. remove the spare wheel cover
2. unscrew the black plastic trim that cover the boot lock and weather seal.
3. remove the weather seal
4. pull the carpet up on the battery compartment side and you will see 2 black push fittings that you need to lever upwards
5. wiggle and pull the battery compartment carpet trim from the car.

Things to note, you will see a red cord, this is the manual fuel flap release, make sure its hanging down over the battery so you can reach it if you ever need to.

Here is pid of the relay and fuse:

f1relay.jpg
 
C

Chrisbassett

Member
Messages
3,909
Hi James.

hope you manage to get this sorted soon, but if you're managing to drive normally and don't have a light on the dash it doesn't sound too expensive.

It may be the relay as there seems to be a delay after it primes once before it will do so again - unlock & open the door, close the door and leave for a minute and from memory it won't usually prime again when you unlock or open the door, but wait longer and it does. So maybe the delay part is stuck at "doesn't need priming again". Whether it's timed or a pressure sensor or something else that tells the system if it needs to prime I'm not sure.

Where are you based in London? Are you going to the Ace on the 13th?
 
James

James

New Member
Messages
36
Conaero/Chris - Thank you both for the prompt feedback, this is extremely helpful and a relief, especially as if this means limited expense!

I will investigate further in a quiet spot, but the "seed has been planted" to changing over the F! pump, especially having seen the fantastic "How to" guide on another thread. I may do some preventative maintenance in nicer weather!

I regret I am not here on the 13th, I will be travelling :-(.
Thank you both.
 
CatmanV2

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,848
Hi James
The pump pressurises an accumulator. If the pressure hasn't dropped enough, the pump won't run. So, no, it won't *necessarily* run every time you open on unlock.

As everyone else has said, if the car is driving normally, there's not much to worry about. I can't think of any failure mode for a pump that would make it run *quieter* and still work!

Changing the relay won't hurt. I know there are plenty that find it gives them comfort, but it won't help either, in my opinion, in this instance :)

C
 
James

James

New Member
Messages
36
Thanks Catman.
Having left the car for 24 hrs, very late last night I listened for the F1 pump noise, but did NOT hear the whirring, (I did not have the chance to start the engine) so today I will change the relay and see if I hear anything.

And then take it for a little spin to check the gears/clutch... More to come as this seems odd!

Conaero - I appreciate your photo above, having had a little grope around the battery compartment, it was easy to figure out, although difficult to actually see. Thanks.
 
CatmanV2

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,848
James, if your car is driving, your pump must be running (understand that you've not had a chance to confirm this today). Change the relay if you like, but I'll be investing in edible headgear if you can hear the pump afterwards ;)

C
 
James

James

New Member
Messages
36
LOL - I hear you and probably agree, but will let you know if you have to eat your hat!
 
James

James

New Member
Messages
36
Catman - you can keep your hat :) You were right - I changed out the F1 Relay but it did not make any difference.

However, I definitely do not hear the F1 pump whirring when the car is unlocked/door opened (although I used to hear it!) but the car drives normally having gone for a spin after changing the relay tonight.

So I remain a little confused about what is going on with the F1 Pump, the gears/clutch certainly work when the engine is running, but the pump does not seem to need to run when the door is unlocked/opened.

Could the accumulator be faulty, or another component in the system?
 
mjheathcote

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,038
If it doesn't whirl when you unlock the door, does it whirl when you turn on the ignition, before you start the engine?
When left in gear, the pump will have to run to engage neutral before starting the engine, you should hear it then before the engine starts.
 
CatmanV2

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,848
Certainly an odd one. The only thing that drifted across my brain is that there coupe be some kind of fault that's making the pump run slow enough to make it inaudible, but fast enough to maintain pressure. That could be bad. I suppose something like a mounting coming loose may stop the noise from being transmitted through the body to make it audible
Bit of a tough call, really. If it was me, I'd get down with the electrics and a meter, make sure it's going on and off at a reasonable frequency. If it was, I'd get Feli to look it over next time it was in and not worry too much.
If it is on all the time, I'd look at replacing it.

C
 
Parisien

Parisien

Moderator
Messages
34,927
Certainly very obvious in my Maser the 30 second whirr/whine........maybe yours is well sound proofed.......


P
 
James

James

New Member
Messages
36
I certainly used to hear the whirring on unlocking, from outside the car, but will get under the car and see if see/ hear anything odd. On turning on the ignition, I hear various noises (with aircon fan turned off) but I cannot identify if these are from behind me (from F1 Pump). I may be conscious that I have not herd the pump when unlocking as it seems to be quieter on turning the key on!
Interesting idea around the pump running slow as it does explain the gear box/clutch working but no pump noise. I am due a service in the next 2 months, so will have this investigated.

Thank you, great feedback.
 
Tubber273

Tubber273

New Member
Messages
228
Interesting thread! Oddly enough, just the other day, the same thing happened me but with a twist. I had parked just outside my garage where there is a slight downward hill. I left it in 1st for added confidence (that it wouldn't roll back due to a weak parking brake). When I returned a few hours later, I didn't hear the pump prime while getting in the car. Started her up, but it was as though the clutch was engaged and promptly stalled with the F1 warning light coming on. I restarted, the light went out, and all is well again with the car.
Pretty weird though! I'll just chalk it up to the gremlin!
 
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