GranSport Giallo Granturismo thread

gotcha

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78
Waiting for thew roof liner, as a small side job (still few hours of work) my trimmer did the upper dash as well. It had two damages, over the passenger airbag there was a large mark in the leather as if somebody put some glue on it and it has eaten the leather. Same by the driver´s A pillar. Also, my dash was covered with one piece of leather with no stitching and I really prefer the version that has a contrast stitching around the instrument cluster. Turned out nicely:
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On top of that I will have real parcel shelf done in the same way. This was not really planned and there was nothing wrong with it. But ordering that thin leather for the roof liner and dash, one leather hive was not enough and two hives were too much so a lot of leather would be left. As I am paying it I decided to use it on the parcel shelf just not to leave a large piece of leather unused.

For the moment that’s it on the interior part as without the roof liner and parcel shelf I cannot assemble the rest of interior and boot (parcel shelf is bolted from behind the boot trim).








In the meantime, I progressed on another mechanical projects.

Few months ago I bought Formula Dynamics ARB kit. Well, it was not that easy. My experience may be (and hopefully is) only exception but it didn’t go that smooth.

I contacted FD during November Black Friday promotion when they offered 15% rebate. They replied on the next day that they can sell/ship worldwide except Europe and myself being in Europe I have to go via Larini as their European distributor. I don’t see any real benefits for EU customers in this setup as since Brexit buying from UK is equal pain as buying from US and I have to go via customs process and VAT declaration etc. Also all the world could get FD Black Friday deal except EU customer buying from Larini but OK. I can live with that as would buy the kit for full price anyway. But what I really didn’t expect was the Larini response time. First, I contacted them via their website form end of Nov. No response so after a week I sent them an email. No response again so 3 weeks later around Christmas time I sent them a reminder. No response again. OK, I will not bother anybody over Christmas holidays, so I waited early Jan and then I decided to give them a call. I called Larini and reached a nice lady. She took a note of what I needed, she took my email and phone nr. and promised somebody would get back to me ASAP. Nobody did. So end of January I contacted FD again that I am trying to buy their product for two months already but I cannot get any response. FD responded quickly that they would take care of it. The same day Larini came back to me, offered the FD ARB kit, shipping, payment options etc. I also received an apology for not coming back to me because they had mail server issues. Ironically this message was sent to me as reply on my December email so it was received indeed. Also forgetting the fact that I called them as well and never heard back. But all went quickly from that moment, I paid on the very same day and within a week I received the shiny new ARB kit. Well maybe except a tiny issue at import customs declaration as I had proof of payment for over 1000€ including postage and Larini shipped the ARB kit with an invoice saying “exhaust components” and 500GBP. Customs officers are usually not too happy if the proof of payment does not match the invoice but as I agreed to pay customs fees and VAT out of the higher amount they were OK to release it.

But all is forgotten looking at the cool ARBs. Some years ago I installed on my E350 E-class ARBs from E63s AMG to make it a bit less floaty barque and that one was 32 or 34mm “only”. The front FD one is 38mm. Yes, it is a hollow bar design, but looks HUGE.

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As a similar story to compare with I recently bought also Supersprint downpipes with HJS 200cell cats to go with the silenced X pipe I got from them previously. I do have a very clear idea about all the mods I want for my GS just cannot afford them all at once And Supersprint downpipes with cats are a serious bullet to bite. I thought I had nothing to loose if I ask them nicely for a discount so I did. I dropped them an email that I am a long term customer, I do have their complete setups for two Alfa Romeos plus the Maserati X-Pipe from last year. I told them I was interested in the downpipes as well and if they could do me some slightly better deal. They responded on the next day, offered me a 20% discount and free shipping. That was some serious saving for just one email. A week later I was unpacking a tempting box:

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And this is how they look together with the silenced the X-Pipe. Shame that one is slightly dented.

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Not too far from musical instrument looks.
 

gotcha

Member
Messages
78
Time to install some upgrades

Removing the ARB is really easy, as well as the crossmember bar and downpipes. Luckily there are no rusty bolts on my car, however the hex bolts attaching downpipes to the manifolds can be a pain to release. I had to heat up one to break it loose and it was removed last time maybe only one year and 500km ago.

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Just for comparison, three versions of the X-Pipe I had on hand at the same time. Supersprint going to be installed, the Japanese X-pipe that I just removed and the OEM silenced one. I never used it, but it is again one of the things I found at a breaker for under 100€ EUR and had to have it just in case.

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Just out of curiosity, I weighted them:

OEM: 11,37kg

Supersprint: 6,97kg

JPN Xpipe: 5,05kg


I am keeping the OEM as original part for the car, Supersprint is installed but I do not really need the Japanese Xpipe. If anybody is interested in an unknown brand X pipe, let me know. I am not looking to make any big profits just to get rid of it so I would let it go for 100€ + shipping.

The thicker sections on the Xpipe are not resonators or double walled with some silencing material. They are hollow. The pipes just change diameter into a larger one and then back to the original diameter, probably causes some sound effect.




However, the surprise of the day were the downpipes. Here is just some visual comparison:

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Nothing that surprising from the outside, but I was interested to check the condition of the cats if they are still OK or disintegrating. The front ones were OK. Tiny chip on one of them but they are generally in 99perc condition. Surprise came with the back cats. One was OK like the front ones. And the second one was – not there at all. I had three cats on my car. On the right downpipe the rear cat was just an empty chamber. It was certainly not opened, taken out and re-welded. And inside it was perfectly clean, smooth walls, just a clean cave with absolutely no marks inside at all. As if it was never there. Does not look like beaten out cat.

I just don’t get it. If somebody removed it due to failure or tuning, why didn’t he remove the second one as well? And the inside looks so clean I would even say it was never there from factory. Maybe the manufacturer run out of cats and Maserati quality control didn’t notice. Farfetched, but I have seen worse mistakes in automotive industry.

What was for sure not ideal is that one bank of cylinders had a different exhaust setup than the other one. 4 cylinders working with more restriction than the other four.

Talking about cats, here are endoscope pictures of their mesh.

Here is the OEM one with a honeycomb grill/mesh and usual ceramic monolith substrate:

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And this is the metallic HJS cat with trapezoid mesh

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With new cats I also installed all new lambdas.

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Front lambdas 182837 have a Bosch alternative 0 258 007 001, however I found in Germany original ones for about the same price so I went with OEM.

Rear lambdas 191412 are a bit trickier and more expensive to get. The Bosch alternative is 0 258 006 486. I ordered it from at least three sellers and I always got feedback it was not available anymore and I was offered alternative 0 258 006 196. This is apparently the same sensor just with 1200mm wire instead of 700mm. It is not a big deal, but I was not happy to have half a meter extra of the wire around the exhaust, so I kept searching. I found originals twice and in both cases my orders were cancelled again. Finally, I found one in Hungary and second one in Germany. Took some nights searching, but in the end I got all 4 original lambdas for just a little bit more than Bosch. And yes, I do know they are exactly the same and there is no difference at all except the box and price. But for me it was part of the fun to find the most affordable originals available
 

gotcha

Member
Messages
78
And here are the parts bolted on:

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I later replaced the manifold to downpipe bolts for longer ones. Originals are threaded into the downpipe flanges, Supersprint flange has smooth holes so you need a longer bolt to go through and a nut. Better design as old seized ones are easier to remove.

As the rear lambdas are now behind rear cats instead of behind the front ones I had to relocate the wiring a little. I bolted their connector brackets on the back of the subframe.

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Supersprint made a tiny mistake. Their downpipes include the temp probe sockets that GS does not use (at least on my car the probe sockets were welded and wiring for the temp sensors blanked by the bellhousing). The sockets are supposed to come with screw on blanking caps, but mine came with only one. So I had to find a way to blank the other one. I didn’t want to weld them; I doubt it but I may need them one day in the future. And as they have a fine pitched thread M10x1mm I was able to find only brass blanking caps used for brake lines and nothing in stainless steel. So I had to have them made. I bought some stainless steel M10x1 nuts, friend of mine welded a stainless plates on them and I ground them down to hex shape:

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Finally, the exhaust is on the car, but how does it sound? I don’t know yet I still cannot drive out of the garage and I do have my airbag and steering wheel off as I sent the steering column shroud for sticky coating refinishing. I have not yet started the engine with Supersprint. I am intrigued, hopefully soon I will hear it.




To finish the exhaust install the ARB needs to go back on. It didn’t really make sense to put the OEM back so I already installed the FD one. I know it will spoil the balance to have the front FD ARB only but it is only temporary solution. During summer I plan some more jobs in the rear of the car so I drop the rear subframe and put the rear ARB on then.

Here they are, OEM and FD bars:

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Out of curiosity, I did also weight them. I weighted them both together with their bushes on and the steel brackets holding the bushes:

OEM: 10,8kg

FD: 9,6kg

So FD ARB is over 1kg weight saving and even though being much thicker. Being hollow bar design, it is actually lighter.

Using Supersprint downpipes with cats, silenced X-pipe and FD ARB I am saving 7,6kg of weight compared to fully stock car. At the same time I add it back with heavier speakers, CD changer, more leather in the interior and sound deadening so in the end the car stays about the same.


With the FD I am also using new ARB droplinks. I found a cheap Polish supplier manufacturing pattern parts so I decided to test them:

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And here is the ARB installed on the car:

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I set the drop link to the front hole in the ARB. This should be the softer setting. Not having the rear one on probably safer to start from there. Using this hole, the droplink is getting close to its limits and also applying the ARB force on the arm under an angle. I added two additional washers under its bottom bolt to move the lower ball joint a bit more forward and get it less angled.

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Second thing that I find a bit weaker design point is that the part of the ARB that passes through the bush is not straight but already inside the bush is starting to bend forwards:

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I would much more prefer if the bar was straight inside the bush touching all its surface evenly, this way it slightly crushes the outer front edge of the bush bending forwards and creates a gap at the outer back part of the bush. It is not a disaster, but I think it can wear the bush faster. Also, this may be an issue for somebody who uses the car in any weather as the gap allows water and dirt to enter the bush easily.



That’s it for now, I need to wait the roofliner, parcel shelf and some interior bits with sticky plastics refinished, put it all back together and drive it a bit finally this year
I will do some more jobs over summer like rear ARB, replacing cracked hoses from Cambiocorsa reservoire to pump and return, retrofitting rear parking sensors, replacing A/C dryer and some more.
 

urquattrogus

Member
Messages
857
Enjoyed reading that update :)

Also quite jealous that you have the "right" exhaust manifolds.

Every one of the GS I looked at inc mine have the larger Euro 4/EU Manifolds with larger cats and shorter runners, can't be as good as those headers/manifolds....
 

gotcha

Member
Messages
78
Got better photos?

C
Not many, but I can crop for more detial. But I threw them out. They were installed in the same way on both sides of the car, wiring leading nowhere. Maybe some signal filters or antena amps but for what? And on both sides of the car.

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Might not be related to this, but I pulled out of the car a lot of Japanese "placebo" stuff. I think the Japanese owner believed in magical things and I pulled out a bag of products from this comapny:


I pulled out:

- metal weights stuck on cam covers with double sided tape to "reduce vibration and improve performance". They have wording "head ballancer" on them.

- weights stuck on gearbox - with the same purpose?

- magnet-like things tightened to bottom radiator hose - to improve cooling? like this:

- magnet-like thing wrapped on negative battery cable - to reduce noise? like this:

- thick and heavy stickers on all brake calipers, similar to sound deadening material - to reduce vibration/noise?

- I still have big heavy stickers similar to sound deadening material on exhuast tailpipes - to reduce resonances?

- Exhust piping was "grounded" on mutiple places. Wrapped in bunches of thin copper sheets tightened with jubilee clip with a wire leading to chasis like a ground point - Even in wildes dream I cannot think about purpose - to fight ghosts? This is what was wrapped around exhaust piping

- I had grounded metal clips on intake hose before and after MAF. The metal clips that are tigtening rubber or plastic piping had a wire that lead to engine block and was grounding them - again, I cannot think about any reason to gorund rubber/plastic hose other than figting ghosts?

Basically the only thing missing was something attached to fuel piping promissing 25perc improvement of fuel economy :)

So some weird boxed with wires leading nowhere are not that shocking. I still keep few souvenirs as I doubt I would ever again get my hands on something this unique:

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CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,789
That's some next level weird *** ****!

The boxes look to me to be some kind of RF amp / filter. Possibly to combine / select the best signal from one or more antennae. But can't see anything on the parts diagrams.

Great read BTW

C
 

gotcha

Member
Messages
78
Enjoyed reading that update :)

Also quite jealous that you have the "right" exhaust manifolds.

Every one of the GS I looked at inc mine have the larger Euro 4/EU Manifolds with larger cats and shorter runners, can't be as good as those headers/manifolds....

I understood the EU/JPN cars should have manifolds like me, with long primaries and 4 cats on downpipes. And US cars should have short primaries and pre-cats on manifolds to heat up as quickly as possible to reduce cold start emissions due to California regulation being ahead of EU in that time. But I also read that UK/AUS markets received randomly both types.

I think the performance difference will be negligible, or who would really feel 2-3 bhp difference on this engine but I would be more worried about cats disintegrating and loose pieces being sucked into the cylinders scratching cylinder walls and being hammered into exhaust valve seats.

But you can always swap them :) Might not be horrible if you shop around, right now I see one side in Poland for about 280GBP after conversion.

The other side is unfortunately damaged:

I unfortunately see here around many breakers that literally do what the name says. BREAK the car in pieces no matter what is destroyed in the process.
 

urquattrogus

Member
Messages
857
I think PAL refers to the Video format PAL which is used in Europe, might be a converter from PAL to some other composite form of video signal?
 

urquattrogus

Member
Messages
857
I understood the EU/JPN cars should have manifolds like me, with long primaries and 4 cats on downpipes. And US cars should have short primaries and pre-cats on manifolds to heat up as quickly as possible to reduce cold start emissions due to California regulation being ahead of EU in that time. But I also read that UK/AUS markets received randomly both types.

I think the performance difference will be negligible, or who would really feel 2-3 bhp difference on this engine but I would be more worried about cats disintegrating and loose pieces being sucked into the cylinders scratching cylinder walls and being hammered into exhaust valve seats.

But you can always swap them :) Might not be horrible if you shop around, right now I see one side in Poland for about 280GBP after conversion.

The other side is unfortunately damaged:

I unfortunately see here around many breakers that literally do what the name says. BREAK the car in pieces no matter what is destroyed in the process.

Thanks, yes not something to lose sleep over, but they just seem better, better looking, better for heat dissipation and maybe a little bhp and TQ.

Maybe it's one for the long term list, can't really complain but I do think they are a better design :)
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,283
That man is correct, the cat in manifold version is known as the US exhaust.

Be warned, swapping them is a total pain in the ****. Getting to the nuts is awful, you need a different heat shield under the engine, the lambda wires are in totally the wrong place. The thought of doing it again gives me PTSD.

Edit. The pipe from the oil tank to the pump is also different.
 
Last edited:
Messages
208
That man is correct, the cat in manifold version is known as the US exhaust.

Be warned, swapping them is a total pain in the ****. Getting to the nuts is awful, you need a different heat shield under the engine, the lambda wires are in totally the wrong place. The thought of doing it again gives me PTSD.

Edit. The pipe from the oil tank to the pump is also different.
Did you ever do a dyno test before and after? Or do you have any 'seat of the pants' comparison?
(US spec car here...)
 

Bugivugi

New Member
Messages
2
Great work!
Do you have by any chance also a 147 gta thread on any alfa forum, would love to read that too.
 

gotcha

Member
Messages
78
Great work!
Do you have by any chance also a 147 gta thread on any alfa forum, would love to read that too.
Yes, that will be me. I spent about a decade and broke about 3 engines until I found a proper way to build myself a reliable 3,75 Busso V6 conversion :) I maintained a very extensive thread on Alfaowner forum about it with a lot of details, however one day Photobucket got paid and all pics disappeared from my thread what took away all my will to continue posting. I have not been around there for some years. Now I see some pictures appeared back with big photobucket watermark over them but I have not really updated the thread since 2018. But if you are interested in a long read, please enjoy:
 

Bugivugi

New Member
Messages
2
Yes, that will be me. I spent about a decade and broke about 3 engines until I found a proper way to build myself a reliable 3,75 Busso V6 conversion :) I maintained a very extensive thread on Alfaowner forum about it with a lot of details, however one day Photobucket got paid and all pics disappeared from my thread what took away all my will to continue posting. I have not been around there for some years. Now I see some pictures appeared back with big photobucket watermark over them but I have not really updated the thread since 2018. But if you are interested in a long read, please enjoy:
You did stuning job sir! How would you compare 147 gta with 4200/gransport. I'm also gta owner but for years 4200 is my dream car.