next gen EV - 5th gear

EnzoMC

EnzoMC

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now this is thinking out the box and what we currently do with any battery tools; replace and charge at same time

 
Oneball

Oneball

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Can’t see how the business model works for that but to be honest I couldn’t really get past Plato’s jumper and hat, is he going to stick his arm up a cows bottom or get a job as a steeplejack?
 
Wack61

Wack61

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Once Nio hit the UK they'll revolutionise the EV market , not only with the battery change but also with the quality and price

Over 600bhp EV for 51k

This bmw 520D is 73k list Unbelievably
101133
 
Zep

Zep

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It’s been posted before on one of the other threads where people argue about whether EVs are any good. Will be an interesting option when it happens.
 
midlifecrisis

midlifecrisis

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Tesla suggested the battery replacement model back in 2013.

As for the car, it's an SUV full of superfluous technology, so it's a no from me.
 
Andyk

Andyk

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Wack61 said:
Once Nio hit the UK they'll revolutionise the EV market , not only with the battery change but also with the quality and price

Over 600bhp EV for 51k

This bmw 520D is 73k list Unbelievably
View attachment 101133
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Until you get 500 miles of range out of an electric vehicle then that will revolutionise EV vehicles. Plus it’s ugly as a bag of boll0cks….I do get though that this is a big step forward in tech….but what would make more sense is having two sets of batteries in the car one charges on the move and the other you use then switch from one to the other so no charge points required. Car would be heavier then a 5 bedroom house in Chigwell though.
 
c4sman

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Andyk said:
Until you get 500 miles of range out of an electric vehicle then that will revolutionise EV vehicles. Plus it’s ugly as a bag of boll0cks….I do get though that this is a big step forward in tech….but what would make more sense is having two sets of batteries in the car one charges on the move and the other you use then switch from one to the other so no charge points required. Car would be heavier then a 5 bedroom house in Chigwell though.
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Afraid the science doesn’t quite work for that regardless of battery size. If you could invent that tech (never ending energy source) you’d very quickly eclipse Elon’s wealth!

I do like the swappable battery model, however how long would it take to roll out enough swap stations to make it viable? Plus proprietary solutions is not the right direction of travel to achieve scale. Petrol pumps are very much an open standard which needs to be replicated!
 
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Wack61

Wack61

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Andyk said:
Until you get 500 miles of range out of an electric vehicle then that will revolutionise EV vehicles. Plus it’s ugly as a bag of boll0cks….I do get though that this is a big step forward in tech….but what would make more sense is having two sets of batteries in the car one charges on the move and the other you use then switch from one to the other so no charge points required. Car would be heavier then a 5 bedroom house in Chigwell though.
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I think NIO will kill tesla sales overnight if the promise is reality

1000km range, battery swap , lifetime warranty and car design , this is a good looking car from Nio , none of the Tesla's are

101160101161
 
Wack61

Wack61

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Then there's this :D101164

NIO - EP9

NIO has launched an outperforming electric supercar as its first product in London on November 21st. The NIO EP9 is a 1360 bhp, 3G capable, electric supercar. The NIO EP9 broke the existing Electric Vehicle record at Nürburgring’s Nordschleife, and has been proven to be the world's fastest...
www.nio.com www.nio.com
 
CatmanV2

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c4sman said:
I do like the swappable battery model, however how long would it take to roll out enough swap stations to make it viable? Plus proprietary solutions is not the right direction of travel to achieve scale. Petrol pumps are very much an open standard which needs to be replicated!
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HUGE investment though. Enormous numbers of batteries being charged and effectively just lying around waiting for someone to come in that needs one. And, as you say, proprietary solutions would mean that you'd need several for each make and model.

Another (probably small point) is how do you charge for this model? New batteries have a greater range than old one, I think? So flat (no pun) rate for all and sometimes you get 300 miles, sometimes 500? Seems unlikely to fly. I'm sure there will be a solution but...

C
 
Zep

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I’m not sure of the practicalities of there being lots of battery swap stations. But then we probably don’t need them given that something like 70% of all car journeys in the U.K. are under 5 miles. So a few in strategic locations will probably do it. To me it’s more about placating those who are anxious about range but will probably never need it.

As for the concern about range, I am mostly baffled to be honest. I don’t fill my car with petrol every day to make sure it has a full tank in the morning, I might do it once a week. An EV can arrive home with quarter of a tank of electrons and be full the following morning, in fact, it will be full every morning. So if you don’t do more than 250 miles a day (see above) the range discussion and the need for 600 mile batteries is largely moot. In my view anyway.

I imagine when the car was a new thing there were some people who who put notices on boards in village squares (that’s probably what passed for a forum then) saying they liked the fact that when their horse was empty it could just eat some grass, rather than having to find someone selling some magic potion (petrol) for this new fangled “motorised carriage”.
 
CatmanV2

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Zep said:
As for the concern about range, I am mostly baffled to be honest. I don’t fill my car with petrol every day to make sure it has a full tank in the morning,
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Well, no but I suspect your ICE car does a few more miles on the tank. But you do raise a very fair point. The counter is that when we do need to do long trips (occasionally in most cases, granted) we have no alternative.

My model is 14 miles to the station once a week (check)
Maybe 40 miles to the Abbey twice a month (check)
140 miles to Flitwick / MK once a month (check)
220 miles to Boston one a month or so (check)
360 miles to Leeds once a fortnight. Now (I don't believe) not so check. Office car park has no chargers. Hotel has limited charge points.

So quite rightly for all bar two days of my month I'm good with an EV. The last one seems to currently put me back into having two cars, or at the very least a hybrid.

Of course the tech will improve (well it will if it's the tech that gets mass adoption and something like H2 doesn't overtake it) It already has, massively improved.

C
 
Zep

Zep

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CatmanV2 said:
Well, no but I suspect your ICE car does a few more miles on the tank. But you do raise a very fair point. The counter is that when we do need to do long trips (occasionally in most cases, granted) we have no alternative.

My model is 14 miles to the station once a week (check)
Maybe 40 miles to the Abbey twice a month (check)
140 miles to Flitwick / MK once a month (check)
220 miles to Boston one a month or so (check)
360 miles to Leeds once a fortnight. Now (I don't believe) not so check. Office car park has no chargers. Hotel has limited charge points.

So quite rightly for all bar two days of my month I'm good with an EV. The last one seems to currently put me back into having two cars, or at the very least a hybrid.

Of course the tech will improve (well it will if it's the tech that gets mass adoption and something like H2 doesn't overtake it) It already has, massively improved.

C
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Absolutely, so that puts you in the 10% by a whisker. For you, a bigger battery will actually make a difference. Or a hybrid, which works for me. I got nearly 90mpg over a tank last month because I did a lot of short journeys and one or two big ones. That’s best case, average is around 60 mpg.

edit: Oh and don’t bet on H2. Using electricity to crack water into hydrogen (unless it’s made from natural gas, which is absurd in carbon terms), then put it in a tank and drive it to a filling station, then stick it in a car and use it to make electricity to move your car seems like a bit of a dead end when you can just put that electricity straight into your car. Hydrogen will be the domain of trucks, busses and earth movers, not personal transport.
 
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CatmanV2

CatmanV2

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Zep said:
Absolutely, so that puts you in the 10% by a whisker. For you, a bigger battery will actually make a difference. Or a hybrid, which works for me. I got nearly 90mpg over a tank last month because I did a lot of short journeys and one or two big ones. That’s best case, average is around 60 mpg.

edit: Oh and don’t bet on H2. Using electricity to crack water into hydrogen (unless it’s made from natural gas, which is absurd in carbon terms), then put it in a tank and drive it to a filling station, then stick it in a car and use it to make electricity to move your car seems like a bit of a dead end when you can just put that electricity straight into your car. Hydrogen will be the domain of trucks, busses and earth movers, not personal transport.
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Interested in that '10%' figure. I get that 90% of journeys are well within EV range, but does that equate to 90% of trips made by any one car owner? I can think that lots of owners have a need to do 'occasional' long trips. Maybe once every couple of months. Would people be prepared to hire a car for those journeys? Just don't know.

C
 
Zep

Zep

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CatmanV2 said:
Interested in that '10%' figure. I get that 90% of journeys are well within EV range, but does that equate to 90% of trips made by any one car owner? I can think that lots of owners have a need to do 'occasional' long trips. Maybe once every couple of months. Would people be prepared to hire a car for those journeys? Just don't know.

C
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This is perhaps where the battery swap model will chime in. Very irregular, but useful. Given that someone I know with an EV has reduced their fuel spend from £3k to £800 in a year and £18k miles, hiring a car is also an option.
 
CatmanV2

CatmanV2

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Zep said:
This is perhaps where the battery swap model will chime in. Very irregular, but useful. Given that someone I know with an EV has reduced their fuel spend from £3k to £800 in a year and £18k miles, hiring a car is also an option.
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Battery swap would suit me, for sure.

But that's for another day. I need to define my car requirements beyond November then it might be a case of
  1. Run the Jaaaaaag into the ground
  2. Chop the Jaaaaaag in for something just as cheap top buy but sod the fuel (XFR perhaps)
  3. Chop it in for something not cheap to buy but better on fuel.

Decisions decisions :)

C
 
rockits

rockits

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There is a ton of advancement as you would imagine here. Already there is a 1m mile Tesla battery. Tesla already on early stages of 100 year life batteries.

India are trying to mandate a whole standard countrywide of universal battery sizes and connections for scooters, tuk tuk's and the like to allow quick battery swaps.

I'm sure with enough R&D but also govt/political will then advances will be greater also faster.
 
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