Speeding in France

[hodroyd]

This could go on and on..!! We all have our own ideas on most stuff and broadly speaking we are all sort of right in what we believe..!! The fact that we don't have any wars is brilliant, but we are left to contend with the underground wars practiced by fanatics who don't care about anbody..!! The west is broadly sensible these days thankfully and realise that conflict costs a fortune, spending that money on the country and it's people is better than chucking it away..!!
The French through history do not have a good record of reasonable conduct, only when it seems to suit them..!! They do however have some good people who make an effort, but never politicians..!!

 

[Parisien]

The Americans...what did they ever do for us......??!!

Oh, forgot, they did it for themselves......I have no doubt guys, the French with their own good reasons hold GB in equal distain if this debate is anything to go by.

The fact that a Europe that didn't have age old excuses and obscure reasons to go to war again, had little to do with NATO......after all Russia won the war in Europe, why shouldn't they take the spoils??!!

I refuse to see all that is bad in one country and all that is good in another..........


P

 

[hodroyd]

I think the weather had a bit to do with the Russians winning their bit of the war, if it had been sunshine they would have lost..!!

 

[BennyD]

The Americans...what did they ever do for us......??!!

Oh, forgot, they did it for themselves......I have no doubt guys, the French with their own good reasons hold GB in equal distain if this debate is anything to go by.

The fact that a Europe that didn't have age old excuses and obscure reasons to go to war again, had little to do with NATO......after all Russia won the war in Europe, why shouldn't they take the spoils??!!

I refuse to see all that is bad in one country and all that is good in another..........

I'm sorry mate, but I thought better of you than that. The Russians beat the Germans on the Eastern front and the US/ GB beat them on the Western front and they all met in the suburbs of Berlin. Saying the Russians won the war is total bollox as they would have been f*cked without the aircraft and tanks we supplied that kept them in the war until such time as their industry allowed them to build their own in great numbers. Meanwhile the french sat on their ar5es doing next to f*ck all until the end of the war when they declared themselves to be one of the Victors and demanded a french sector in Berlin. That is of course glossing over the fact that the Americans entering WW1 hastened the end of German aggression and the start of European peace which was eventually shattered by that other cornerstone of the European experiment. IMO, the problem with the french is that they expect everyone else to get them out of the sh!t and then don't show any appreciation towards their saviours. Instead they get into bed with their assailants because it suits them and then treat their saviours with contempt and derision. F*ck them and the horse they rode into town on and personally I don't give a dam what they think.

 

[Parisien]

So the 8 of 10 Germans killed....because thats what winning a war is ultimately about, happened to be killed by the Russians, means they weren't the the "winners"?

Sure supplies and other stuff was useful.......but at the end of the day its men on the ground who win a war. Of 50 million dead...30 million of whom were Russians. The Russians weren't a bit afraid of the mighty western forces, they could have rolled onto the atlantic, the USA saviours would have been pretty reluctant to waste more lives....IMHO.

Why think little of me Ian, because I hold another/alternative view?

P

 

[BennyD]

It's because of your comments re the Russians; your viewpoint smacks of the typical claptrap that gets rolled out by some modern socialist historians. I'm not going to drag this on but again you let yourself down by saying they could have rolled the Americans into the Atlantic. At the close of WW2 the sides were evenly matched; in Europe the russians had the manpower but the Americans had better equipment and aircraft and only the Americans had the bomb. If the Russians could have rolled us over they would have, but they couldn't. WW2 could not have been won without the Americans but it could have been won without the Russians and Russia couldn't have carried on without the Americans. Remember, Russia was fighting on one front whereas the Americans were fighting in Europe and all over the Pacific. You appeared to relegate the American contribution to Victory in Europe to a mere footnote and that is what I take issue with.

 

[BennyD]

This photo sums up the french take on WW2 history.



It's on a monument at Courseulles-sur-mer, near the D-Day beaches, and it honours Chief surrender monkey De Gaulle. Frank, one question which leaps out is; if he landed on the 14th June, exactly how is he the 'Liberator of France' if he landed 8 days after every other f*cker? By the time he landed, he was so far behind the lines he had to send his laundry forward. I guess it's another example of the (socialist) french being free and easy with history.

 

[TridentTested]

Oh, massive thread drift into WW2 history.

Sorry Benny, I can't agree with you. The USSR did the lion's share of the fighting and dying. In fact recognising or denying this fact goes to the heart of the strained relationship between east and west ever since May 1945.

The USA didn't keep the Soviet Union in the war, they sent them their second rate equipment and it was pure tokenism; despite the heroic sacrifices of the men delivering it on the Arctic convoys. As an example, the best tank of the war, the T34, was designed and produced solely in the USSR, Detroit did not contribute a single one of those 84,000 war-winning machines.

The US entered the war in December 1941 and apart from a little adventure in operation Torch, and the pointless Italian campaign which followed, made no significant contribution to the European theatre of operations until June 1944. The Soviets were incandescent with rage demanding a second front be opened. But from 1941 to 1944 they did all the bleeding.

Even after 1944 when the writing was on the wall the Wehrmacht put all of its efforts into the Eastern front and positively invited the US British and Canadians to walk in, with the one notable exception of Operation Watch on the Rhine. They were flabbergasted that the Western allies didn't advance. They were content to dig in and let the Russians do the dying.

I also doubt it's true to say both sides were evenly matched when they finally met on the Elbe, the Soviets had vastly superior numbers, more battle-hardened troops, more ruthless leadership and more appetite for war. It's also untrue to say the USA had the better equipment. The Sherman was a joke besides the T34, the IL2 was the best tank destroyer aircraft of the war - 36,000 were produced, even their small arms were excellent, the German poor-bl00dy-infantryman often preferred to use Soviet rifles when they could because they kept working.

Granted after the war when Britain was exhausted we looked to the USA to provide the vast majority of the anti-Soviet defence but it's wrong to think Uncle Sam won the war. That honour goes to the 30,000,000 Soviet citizens who gave their lives.

 

[Parisien]

We shall agree to differ on a number of points, it was a joint effort against a truly common and evil regime, each side claims to have been the victor. At different times each tried to help the other, knowing that by doing so they would gain time to re-arm, re-inforce or stave off the inevitable.

The Germans were formidable foes, only beaten but overwhelming and combined forces. Thank God, and all those who did their bit, and indeed paid the ultimate sacrifice.

P


PS Can you point me in the direction of those books written by the modern socialist historians....might make good reading.........

 

[BennyD]

Some valid points. However, by the wars end the new breeds of allied tanks were coming into operation with bigger guns and heavier armour that could out fight the T34 even with the 85 mm gun. The T34 was superior largely because of the huge numbers that were made but they didnt start to come on stream until, IIRC, 1941. At Kursk it met the Tigers and Panthers head on and only superior numbers kept it in the fight. By the end of the war the Pershings, T29, T30 and even the Sherman Firefly could take on the T34s and win.

The equipment sent over helped to keep them in the running until such a time as they could make their own. Absolutely agree that the Allies let the Russians do the dying, it was the sensible thing to do with someone like Stalin at the helm. Also remember that the Russians were fighting for their own country whereas the Americans were not. The Americans were tied up fighting in the Pacific from early 1942 onwards and were unable to do much in Europe but they were still there in the Western desert, the invasion of Sicily and upwards through Italy.

At the end of the war, the Russians were not able to push us out of Europe or they likely would have. Their supply lines would have become too stretched and I still maintain that the western allies had better tanks, aircraft and weapons. As for the numbers killed in Eastern europe can be misleading as well. An awful lot of displaced civilians died because of the weather, the genocide practiced by both sides and the scorched earth policy practiced by both sides and it cannot be denied that it was a barbaric, perhaps the most barbaric war ever fought. Of the 97000 German POW captured at Stalingrad fewer than 5000 returned home. I don't call killing prisoners a measure of success any more than killing Jews or raping women in Berlin. You mention the IL2, which was an excellent tank killer but not great at aerial combat and wouldn't have matched the later model Spitfires, Lightnings and Mustangs which were getting churned out by the thousands, not forgetting jet fighters which we had but the Russians didn't. Air superiority wins wars and the Russians wouldn't have had it. What about bombers? 'We' had lots more with bigger, better bombs and better sights. I could go on.

There is a lot of maybes and what ifs relating to the end of WW2 but, without doubt, the Americans were instrumental in ensuring the allies won not only the Second world war but the cold war as well.

 

[Parisien]

This photo sums up the french take on WW2 history.

View attachment 19040

It's on a monument at Courseulles-sur-mer, near the D-Day beaches, and it honours Chief surrender monkey De Gaulle. Frank, one question which leaps out is; if he landed on the 14th June, exactly how is he the 'Liberator of France' if he landed 8 days after every other f*cker? By the time he landed, he was so far behind the lines he had to send his laundry forward. I guess it's another example of the (socialist) french being free and easy with history.

Indeed De Gaulle was the "liberator" of France...along with the USA, GB, Canadiens......the list is endless.


The French view things completely differently, being humiliated by their old foe, no country can really cope with that........that was one way the French coped


P

 

[Parisien]

Mind you I've nearly gone off the Italians too.......shocking!!!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25672557

P

PS I've received more fines and penalties whilst driving in Italy than all other nations put together!!!!!

 

[hodroyd]

If you were driving down with us Frank, you could go at the front mate..!!

 

[MaverickV12]

I've been fined in most Countries. I see it as an, "entry fee", into the country. In Sweden I set the Cruise control at what ever it was (about 65mph), but apparently even though the speedo said I was legal, the Cruise was set on and the SatNav was in the green, ..... I was still speeding and fined on the spot.

When I said I was not speeding ........ guess what ??? You won't ever believe this ..... they showed me the, "yellow post-it", with my Reg number on and and the speed of my car at about 72mph (in KMH of course).......

Well bugger me backwards, clear and concise evidence that I was indeed speeding......

...... A yellow frigging Post-It .......

I was stopped because I was a Aston Martin in Sweden, and they wanted me to pay an Entry Fee into the their country - Bent Coppers - love them.

As for France, don't even get me started ....... they use radar ....... ahhh RADAR ...... they point the radar gun at you and that bounces a Radar signal off of you, the car behind, the car in front, the car the other side of the road, the central reservation the bridge over the road, ...... **** ..... the radar bounces off of everything...... that is why Radar has been humiliated in this country and have been relegated to school children in yellow Viz Vests in villages who wag their figger at speeders.

I was stopped, showed a Radar gun with some numbers on them, and told to get E750..... I was driven by a French Policeman (who I think was about 12 years old) to the cash point and my licence taken.

Incidentally, they cannot ban you from driving...... what they do is take your licence and in France it is an offence to drive without a licence on you ..... unless you're French of course ..... so if you are stopped again, they can fine you for having no licence.

When we moved about 100 miles along the country again, we went to the local Police Station ..... but not at lunch time of course ..... because betwen 12.00 - 14.00 they close ..... indeed the whole of France closes ..... I was told that they didn't have any record at all of a driving ban and that one regional police force have no connection to the other regional police force.

The moral of the story is ..... if you want to speed don't do it during working hours.

Having said that, working hours in France are 9.00 - 10.30, 11.00 to 12.00, 14.00 - 16.00, Monday to Friday, the rest of the time France is closed, I mean ALL of France .... the complete country closes..... and they wonder why their economy is up the creak....!!

TBH what do you expect from the country, we kicked their ar5e for the last few hundred years then when things become more civilized, we save their ar5e, (not once - but twice) how could they possibly live with the shame of having their ar5e handed to them on a plate.......

 

[conaero]

Well, that touched a nerve I think Maverick???

Been driving (like a lunatic) in France for the past 10 years.

Up until last year, our party only had one €90 fine to show for it.

Last year however, we all got done, some of us twice.

To be fair, the Le Mans district police stay well away, it's the Northern France forces that cash in.

Le Mans police understand that if they are over zealous then the crowds will simply not turn up and that would be a massive loss to the coffers.

 

[Parisien]

Bottom line is, none of use like getting caught, we are now fair game and make ourselves a bit more obvious, by driving supercars and hitting the loud pedal a bit too often

P

 

[zagatoes30]

Epic thread creep, I am impressed.

The dash back for the ferry on Sunday after Le Mans is always a revenue stream for the French police. They also are known to pull you over to check that you have your spare bulbs, warning triangle, breathalysers and of course the high vis jackets that you must be able to fit before getting out of the car (i.e. not in the boot).

Matt is right it is more often than not the villages and towns further North where the police are more sneaky.

 

[TridentTested]

I'm trying to be philosophical about it. The last time I was stopped was in Kerry - where I managed to talk my way out of it - was a long time ago.

Since then I've been trying to view every time I've managed to avoid a fine while I was 'making progress' as money in the bank. At the moment I'm well in credit. The next time I get stopped and do have to fork out the readies I'm going to try doing so with the most grace I can muster.

I figure I will still be well in credit - unless it's the Swiss or Norwegians who catch me.

 

[conaero]

Matt is right it is more often than not the villages and towns further North where the police are more sneaky.

Never had any issues with Le Pork in Le Mans, they just let us get on with it.

 

[conaero]

The French view things completely differently, being humiliated by their old foe, no country can really cope with that........that was one way the French coped

I can see their point, just think if Ze Germans saved our bacon, humiliating.

Thankfully that ***** Merkel is still kicking us in the balls so I cant see that happening anytime soon.