Warning!

[spkennyuk]

I enquired a few casting companies about getting them done.
The general response was that casting was not suitable for the application and forging would be required to give the strength needed.
I haven't explored the option To carve them out of billet aluminium yet but I guess it will be quite expensive.

I have no idea about the costs involved but is Chrome Moly or carbon fibre an option. I guess CF would be quite expensive but possibly easier to tool up for small number runs.

I found this company that will do wishbone fabrication :

http://www.autodevelopments.co.uk/services/

 

[EnzoMC]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/morgan-suspension-upgrades-after-autocar-test

Also, from a 996 buyers guide

"If your car is creaking, it’ll probably need new front suspension wishbones; Porsche calls them coffin arms, and charges £546 for a pair. A regularly used 996 will need new ones every three years or so"

MX-5

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/yaf_po...one-Failure-with-polly-bushes-----Beware.aspx

credit to Morgan for issuing free arms to existing customers, Maserati you could learn something about customer service from Morgan..... and VOSA are just as bad. This is not right, having to check wishbones on a frequent basis...

we could see a lot of 3200/4200/GS going on the market just to not have to pay a silly amount of money... more i read this the more I'm thinking about it as I for one could not afford a mass outlay like this and do not want to risk hurting anyone to whom I mit hit if this happened to me !

think Greg is right, well after my little moan...

anyone looking to contact autocar ?

how about going the otheway and speaking to Ferrari who were involed with these cars and see if they would provide some support or suggest who could assist with making new arms ?

now Germany engineering, do we have anyone from Germany who could do some investigation for us ?

 

[Swedish Paul]

I haven't looked too closely at the positioning and gaps where the cracks can happen, but how much room is there? I was just wondering if there was any possibility of strengthening the existing component, mechanical or otherwise.

 

[Danny]

There lots of fabrication companies out there who could knock up a tubular version of that arm with rose joints fairly easily..
Trouble is, there'd be no EU certification...and if fitted would make you road car insurance invalid!

Dave

I don't see this as an issue at all. If companies like these http://www.autodevelopments.co.uk/services/ fabricate components for racing (where parts are under more stress) then fitting such a component to a road car would definitely be considered an upgrade. I don't see the difference compared to e.g. fitting upgraded brake discs.

Afaic, I would definitely like someone to investigate this route further. I don't mind paying a considerable amount for a wishbone but I do mind to be paying for a part with a design failure, that may fail on me within a couple of years or that will in any case not provide me with 100% confidence in my car.

 

[davy83]

That's odd given that the Maserati arms are clearly cast? creating a wishbone from fabricated parts would be a bit of a nightmare, i suspect probably more likely to fail than the original, with any welds being a stress point likely to fatigue and crack? As to racing standards being ok on any road car i would disagree, racing is all about the next race not about the next 20000 miles, different culture.

I enquired a few casting companies about getting them done.
The general response was that casting was not suitable for the application and forging would be required to give the strength needed.
I haven't explored the option To carve them out of billet aluminium yet but I guess it will be quite expensive.

 

[jluis]

That's odd given that the Maserati arms are clearly cast? creating a wishbone from fabricated parts would be a bit of a nightmare, i suspect probably more likely to fail than the original, with any welds being a stress point likely to fatigue and crack? As to racing standards being ok on any road car i would disagree, racing is all about the next race not about the next 20000 miles, different culture.

Maybe that's why they are sh1tty?

 

[jluis]

Maybe that's why they are sh1tty?

Sandcasting would be relatively cheap if it was acceptable for the application.

 

[Guest 1678]

credit to Morgan for issuing free arms to existing customers, Maserati you could learn something about customer service from Morgan..... and VOSA are just as bad. This is not right, having to check wishbones on a frequent basis...

we could see a lot of 3200/4200/GS going on the market just to not have to pay a silly amount of money... MAF not selling his car, but what if one broke ? more i read this the more I'm thinking about it as I for one could not afford a mass outlay like this and do not want to risk hurting anyone to whom I mit hit if this happened to me !

think Greg is right, well after my little moan...

anyone looking to contact autocar ?

how about going the otheway and speaking to Ferrari who were involed with these cars and see if they would provide some support or suggest who could assist with making new arms ?

now Germany engineering, do we have anyone from Germany who could do some investigation for us ?

As for Germany - How about the TUV? They are very powerful and I believe if one European market raises the issue, the pressure on the UK would ratchet. I do not have any contacts. But just a thought.

 

[safrane]

To give to idea of how pathetic the Maserati made item is, here is the same component on my current Rental, a MB C Class diesel.



You will also see the casting joint is total different to Maserati and not across the point of highest stress.

 

[jluis]

As for Germany - How about the TUV? They are very powerful and I believe if one European market raises the issue, the pressure on the UK would ratchet. I do not have any contacts. But just a thought.

That's a good idea as it's also a big market out there for 3200/4200/GS
Any Germans out here?

 

[safrane]

Just a point if the re manufacture of the part. Please ensure that the integral ball joint is strengthen too...may as well kill two birds with one stone.

 

[CatmanV2]

Make the ball joint replaceable!

C

 

[spkennyuk]

I don't see this as an issue at all. If companies like these http://www.autodevelopments.co.uk/services/ fabricate components for racing (where parts are under more stress) then fitting such a component to a road car would definitely be considered an upgrade. I don't see the difference compared to e.g. fitting upgraded brake discs.

Afaic, I would definitely like someone to investigate this route further. I don't mind paying a considerable amount for a wishbone but I do mind to be paying for a part with a design failure, that may fail on me within a couple of years or that will in any case not provide me with 100% confidence in my car.

I know very little about engineering and i'm not going to pretend otherwise. While I was looking for autodevelopments I found a couple of articles about using a tubular design wishbone which is then wrapped in carbon fibre to give extra strength and a specialist glue is used to bond the CF and Metal parts together.

This could well be overkill in this application and it may well make it far to expensive. I'm sure somebody on here would know if this is an option worth considering.

I don't mind making some enquiries on behalf of the group with autodevelopments and any other companies I can find. I would need some photo's to send to them. We have an idea of the number of cars / market in the UK for this product plus they have the rest of the world market to add to this. Hopefully we could start the ball rolling with a group buy

 

[Guest 1678]

The certification thing does not look so bad - I was bored on a conference call!

The process flow:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/additional/files/vehicle-type-approval/related-information/vca047.pdf

The documentation for components:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/additional/files/vehicle-type-approval/vehicle-type-approval/vca004.pdf

The document is pretty straightforward:

"2. What is Automotive Type Approval?
Put simply, type approval is the confirmation that production samples of a design will meet specified performance standards. The specification of the product is recorded and only that specification is approved.

Automotive EC Directives and UN Regulations require third party approval - testing, certification and production conformity assessment by an independent body. Each Member State is required to appoint an Approval Authority to issue the approvals and a Technical Service to carry out the testing to the EC Directives and Regulations. An approval issued by one Authority will be accepted in all the Member States. A similar situation exists for UN regulations where Contracting Parties have similar role to the EC Member States.

In the UK, the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA) is both Approval Authority and Technical Service."

In our case:

"2.2 System or Component Approval
The separate technical Directives and Regulations allow (or require) the approval of individual systems as part of a type of vehicle and some allow for the approval of separate devices. A separate device may be approved either as a Separate Technical Unit (STU), in which case the vehicle to which it is to be fitted must be declared, or as a Component if it can be fitted to any vehicle. System and component approval requires that a sample of the type to be approved is tested by the Technical Service to the requirements of the relevant Directive. Its technical specification is documented and that specification forms part of the approval."

No idea about the cost, but will follow up with the nice people in Bristol tomorrow.

I am now becoming too interested in the research aspects!

 

[Trev Latter]

It would appear that mine has succumbed too. Got mine on the ramp yesterday to check it ready for Brunty in a few weeks and one of my rears now has a crack. It's done about 2k miles since the last check before I went to Scotland a few weeks ago. I haven't done the report for DVSA, but I'll do it later when I have a little more time. New arm just ordered, so hopefully it won't be too long arriving.

 

[highlander]

that is quite a worry that after about 4 weeks and 2k miles these can go from visibly looking safe & ok to being clearly cracked all the way along the width..............and on the same fault line as all the rest (Again)

 

[Contigo]

Yep my thoughts too. It goes from bad to worse!

 

[jluis]

Can anyone ascertain for sure that these wishbones are indeed cast?
One of the companies I spoke with says casting is not fit for this application and forging is the way to go.
He looked at the pictures of our wishbones and says they look forgings.

Here is what he wrote:
"I can't be totally certain but if I had to chose I'd say they are forgings based upon 2 things
1. The application almost dictates it be a forging
2. The thickness and consistency of the parting line
"

Apparently the parting line from where ours crack are also present on forged parts.

Forging is horrendously expensive to setup and the idiots at Maserati might have wanted to cut costs here and go with a cast design.

 

[Timm]

Any Germans out here?

Yes, here.
I don't have contacts to the TÜV organization, but I know a guy at GTÜ. I will get in contact with him soon and keep you informed about the information I will receive. May take 2 weeks.

 

[jluis]

Yes, here.
I don't have contacts to the TÜV organization, but I know a guy at GTÜ. I will get in contact with him soon and keep you informed about the information I will receive. May take 2 weeks.

It would be usefull first to reach out to the German comunity of Maserati drivers to tell them about this problem and report cracked wishbones to the local authority.
Is there a German forum where you can put this info?