Are you worried yet.

[CatmanV2]

T

That’s brilliant.
Although, it’s made me feel rather stupid

These people are ultracrepidarians (wonderful word).

I'd suggest this is not the correct reaction. No one should be expected to be an expert at everything (Old Chinese (sorry) saying: The secret to appearing wise is knowing what you're stupid at) If it's a topic you don't know, go to a prima facie source and validate.

As you rightly point out, sadly many think YouTube is prima facie. And that all the internet carries the same weight (but that's because the've not got their head around point 1) and there's a general mistrust directed at people that know more than we do when that knowledge contradicts our world view (cf. Cognitive dissonance).

That's got an odd knock on that there then is a growing view that anything we don't understand (or think we understand) is to be mistrusted *except when it does not trigger cognitive dissonance. There are really good evolutionary reasons for this but sadly not terribly helpful in this age of social media.

C

 

[philw696]

Revealed: PPE stockpile was out-of-date when coronavirus hit UK

Channel 4 News obtains full inventory of the national pandemic stockpile - revealing vital safety gear was years out of date

www.channel4.com

 

[Saigon]

Revealed: PPE stockpile was out-of-date when coronavirus hit UK

Channel 4 News obtains full inventory of the national pandemic stockpile - revealing vital safety gear was years out of date

www.channel4.com

If true, that is criminal and heads should roll. I personally know front line workers who would have been happier wearing out of date PPE than not being provided with the PPE they requested. Better than nothing, but then it’s the same as the PPE that was purchased from Turkey which is still in limbo because it does not meet UK standards. The reason it’s not being issued is because the NHS is afraid that by issuing it there might be legal claims made against them if someone using it contracts the virus. Just my opinion of course, but surely it’s better than the original government / HS recommendation to re use Certain PPE, which was a NHS recommendation a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Scaf]

If this story is accurate then it's inexcusable.

 

[foibles]

Fresh from reading the results of my googling 'can I eat the rind of my Danish smoked cheese' I thought I'd add my obnoxious view to the mix.

1. We can only speculate but would you be surprised to think it was accurate? I'd say it most probably is the case
2. Do you for a moment think that the preceding government, and preceding parties in government, did not preside over the same?
3. Do you presume most other organisations do not behave the same way?
4. Do you presume most humans don't also behave the same way? (How are the airbags on your maser? I'm sure mine should have been replaced by now, at extravagant cost)

Invariably, humans are stupid, selfish and lazy. When thrown amongst a broader environment, where chaos is the norm and accountability is absent, this is amplified.

Humans are really only good at responding (way too loudly) to issues....they have limited capacity to assess and treat risk. This applies to Chief Risk Officers (on half a million quid), senior politicians, senior bureaucrats, blithering public servants....well, most life in general.

Beyond the concept of risk is that of 'lifecycle management' - which applies as much to PPE as it does to supercomputers or 3200 Assetto Corsa (especially the 3200, because they really were a **** up of engineering...Dave will join shortly) - but I rarely see people, companies or politicians give any credence to this. Politicians generally because the electoral cycle is so short. Companies because they focus on current year fiscal expenditure, not forward budgets. People because we favour instant gratification and....we're just a bunch of monkeys.

So if you think this case is unique, you're likely very wrong. If you think the fire hydrant in the corridor you just passed is within its service life and will work when needed - be prepared for a shock. If you think your company's payroll systems have been vulnerability tested as needed, you're in for a shock. If you think the engineering assessment on that bridge you drive over every day really has been done according to the asset inspection manual (rather than the inspector filling it in as he watches the greyhounds at the pub) - you're probably kidding yourself.

I'm in no way apologising for whatever oversight apparently happened here. Probably quite egregious and the culmination of a thousand incompetent monkeys who don't care and will wear no accountability. People do die from this ****. And they will continue to. But we set the expectations. We vote the politicians in. We give tacit acceptance of their performance, and our view of improving things or rectifying problems is to switch the monkeys from the other parties.

And with that I'm gonna get stuck into this kick **** 1lt bottle of Santa Teresa 1796 which has been talking to me whilst I've been on Webex all afternoon....

 

[iainw]

If this story is accurate then it's inexcusable.

It’s categorically true.

 

[Wattie]

And with that I'm gonna get stuck into this kick **** 1lt bottle of Santa Teresa 1796 which has been talking to me whilst I've been on Webex all afternoon....

An excellent decision, Can we expect some really controversial posts in due course then?

 

[Phil the Brit]

Interesting news released
There are currently 7,996 excess deaths compared to the five-year average for the current period.
59% of people who have died were in care homes.
No wonder Matt Hancock tried to supress the information.
Source.......... Prof Martin Green, the chief executive of industry group Care England
Does anyone have any reliable stats that give a breakdown of deaths by where they died? Like in hospital, care home, hospice, home, the street (homeless?) and also how many people died with pre existing conditions or were totally healthy.
When this all pans out I got the feeling that we just ruined the country when there were better options.
Boris, Sunday, my message to you, ...........Get working people back to work, get families out of their houses to the countryside/beaches before they (literally) kill each other, socially distancing all the time of course.

 

[foibles]

An excellent decision, Can we expect some really controversial posts in due course then?

Well..... It's just too early to tell.

I'm thinking if I can polish it off, I'll use it as a conch shell (given that in Victoria we can't go to a beach, fish, golf or look sideways). I'm wondering, if i do, if I'll a distant sound saying ... 'forget gold.... Palladium is where all the action is'

 

[daverichardson]

Palladium in London?

 

[Wattie]

Well..... It's just too early to tell.

I'm thinking if I can polish it off, I'll use it as a conch shell (given that in Victoria we can't go to a beach, fish, golf or look sideways). I'm wondering, if i do, if I'll a distant sound saying ... 'forget gold.... Palladium is where all the action is'

Forget Gold?? Are you on your second bottle already!!!! Jeeeeesus I’m off to catch up!
Well played Foibles, loving the view too!

 

[foibles]

Actually palladium is the strip bar just down the road from here in melb. But i was applying a different context. So i guess gold is still good!

 

[Silvercat]

Fresh from reading the results of my googling 'can I eat the rind of my Danish smoked cheese' I thought I'd add my obnoxious view to the mix.

1. We can only speculate but would you be surprised to think it was accurate? I'd say it most probably is the case
2. Do you for a moment think that the preceding government, and preceding parties in government, did not preside over the same?
3. Do you presume most other organisations do not behave the same way?
4. Do you presume most humans don't also behave the same way? (How are the airbags on your maser? I'm sure mine should have been replaced by now, at extravagant cost)

Invariably, humans are stupid, selfish and lazy. When thrown amongst a broader environment, where chaos is the norm and accountability is absent, this is amplified.

Humans are really only good at responding (way too loudly) to issues....they have limited capacity to assess and treat risk. This applies to Chief Risk Officers (on half a million quid), senior politicians, senior bureaucrats, blithering public servants....well, most life in general.

Beyond the concept of risk is that of 'lifecycle management' - which applies as much to PPE as it does to supercomputers or 3200 Assetto Corsa (especially the 3200, because they really were a **** up of engineering...Dave will join shortly) - but I rarely see people, companies or politicians give any credence to this. Politicians generally because the electoral cycle is so short. Companies because they focus on current year fiscal expenditure, not forward budgets. People because we favour instant gratification and....we're just a bunch of monkeys.

So if you think this case is unique, you're likely very wrong. If you think the fire hydrant in the corridor you just passed is within its service life and will work when needed - be prepared for a shock. If you think your company's payroll systems have been vulnerability tested as needed, you're in for a shock. If you think the engineering assessment on that bridge you drive over every day really has been done according to the asset inspection manual (rather than the inspector filling it in as he watches the greyhounds at the pub) - you're probably kidding yourself.

I'm in no way apologising for whatever oversight apparently happened here. Probably quite egregious and the culmination of a thousand incompetent monkeys who don't care and will wear no accountability. People do die from this ****. And they will continue to. But we set the expectations. We vote the politicians in. We give tacit acceptance of their performance, and our view of improving things or rectifying problems is to switch the monkeys from the other parties.

And with that I'm gonna get stuck into this kick **** 1lt bottle of Santa Teresa 1796 which has been talking to me whilst I've been on Webex all afternoon....

Just to reinforce some of your points, my brother was involved in a consortium who were bidding to supply to the then UKG (Tony Blair's Govt -2003) vaccine doses, swabs and other PPE in anticipation of the much publicised bird flu epidemic, which thankfully never came to anything of significance. At that time, UKG considered the risk of a full blown pandemic to be a very low risk event, so didnt go ahead with the contract which would have meant stock piling vast quantities of PPE, swabs, vaccine doses etc....'just in case' and which would needed to have been refreshed every 5 years. The reason? ...it all came down to balance of risk vs investment needed to underpin. UKG took the gamble that it wouldn't be needed. Unlike UKG the Australian Govt went ahead with buying millions of vaccine doses, swabs, PPE etc.. and have continued to refresh every 5 years ever since. In the UK, successive govts
(Blair, Brown, Cameron/ Clegg etc.) failed to invest and yes hindsight is a wonderful thing. But in a world where everyone is fighting for a piece of the budget pie, decisions like this have to be made just like all of us have to do with our household budgets. The reality is that Ministers rely on their career serving civil servants and scientists to advise them and as you have mentioned most Govts are only in place for 5 years at best. So it's the civil service acquistion processes which seems to be at fault here and failing to recognise the strategic importance of investing in specific requirements/ capabilities in their sourcing decisions. Just saying....

 

[rockits]

Nice post Foibles. Can't disagree with much of it and agree with most if not all.

We seem to have lost the ability to think, plan or prepare for tomorrow or care about it. I don't live this way but the majority seem to. I understand life is short and the idea to live each day as if it were your last. However in most cases it never is and tomorrow often comes for most.

With many global economies operating the same way and papering over great chasms of cracks today to create ever worsening problems tomorrow.

Does nobody give a sh1t about tomorrow any more?

News people..... tomorrow is probably going to come....and it is getting worse in so many ways unless we change.

 

[foibles]

We seem to have lost the ability to think, plan or prepare for tomorrow or care about it.

And that is why I am penning my Darwin-inspired manifesto 'On the Merits of Eugenics'

 

[foibles]

and tomorrow often comes for most.

Yes, but I offer a solution (careful now) for that, per the above. Coming soon to a bookstore near you...

 

[foibles]

Forget Gold?? Are you on your second bottle already!!!! Jeeeeesus I’m off to catch up!
Well played Foibles, loving the view too!

Yep... But who wouldn't swap it in an instant for that GC sunshine!!!

 

[RoaryRati]

we're just a bunch of monkeys.

- I'd say we are not that clever . Often I say about someone who has been a bit thick and selfish 'brains of a baboon" - and then apologies to the baboon!

 

[rockits]

The ironic thing is that all most can think about at the moment is when will tomorrow come without actually thinking about tomorrow at all.

Then remember about the immediate past for a brief moment before it becomes a distant memory again. Instead of remembering what we have just come through to prevent it happening again tomorrow. Then go through all the same stuff again. Rinse and repeat.

Doesn't sound like the intelligence or rational behaviour of a supposedly intelligent race does it?

 

[Wattie]

And that is why I am penning my Darwin-inspired manifesto 'On the Merits of Eugenics'

Trying to Catch up.
Was that a typo?
“On the merits of Eunuchs?”