'Check transmission go to dealer' diagnostic help please.

[conaero]

Out of interest, was it the right rear on his too?
Wondering, if the TCU uses that one in particular for a reference.

All very strange regardless.

It was yes. The cable where it went into the hub had been damaged. You could not see it without removing it. It was unclear what caused it, we advised rodent. The outer cable sheath was stripped and we assume, earthing out on the chassis. It showed no errors in the usual way a wheel bearing does and a live 4 wheel speed sensor rolling test also showed all speed sensors registering rotational speed correctly.

 

[Sam McGoo]

It showed no errors in the usual way a wheel bearing does and a live 4 wheel speed sensor rolling test also showed all speed sensors registering rotational speed correctly.

Same here.
Will be interesting to see if there is any obvious damage to mine on removal.
Won't be for at least week or so though.
Will obviously update my findings here.

 

[conaero]

Same here.
Will be interesting to see if there is any obvious damage to mine on removal.
Won't be for at least week or so though.
Will obviously update my findings here.

Make sure you order a new hub nut, they are a tenner and good luck splitting the driveshaft/hub and getting to that silly P clip from behind. Difficult even with a ramp.

 

[Sam McGoo]

Make sure you order a new hub nut, they are a tenner and good luck splitting the driveshaft/hub and getting to that silly P clip from behind. Difficult even with a ramp.

Hmm, sounds like a lot of fun.....
Cheers for the heads up. I'll order a new hub nut and make sure I don't tackle it if I need the car within a week. Sounds like plenty of scope for things to take longer than I expected and potential breakages...

 

[conaero]

I would get the wheel off take the old nut off and keep flooding it with penetrating oil for a few days.

Give the shaft a good wallop with a soft mallet. If you can get over that bit, you should be able to do the rest.

 

[Steve4200]

Out of interest, was it the right rear on his too?
Wondering, if the TCU uses that one in particular for a reference.

All very strange regardless.

Yes, it’s odd.
Typical ABS systems should still give speed reference even if 3 out of 4 sensor fail. The issue here is that the system thinks the speed reference from all wheels are correct whilst one sensor gives erroneous feedback. As the sensor has not yet failed completely it’s hard for the system to throw a fault code. If the system thinks the random failing speed reference on one wheel is valid then it must be commanding some sort of Engine / Gearbox ECU shift / torque limiting response.

It must happen very fast as it’s not seen on the wheel speed data during diagnostics. I will look at adding a min/max for each wheel speed to EasyMAS to maybe capture what the eye can’t see. Also the type of sensor in these hubs are capable of detecting direction of rotation which could be misinterpreted during failure.

 

[Goldsax]

rodents and Maseratis...

was there a glimmer of hope re. hub refurb/repair??

 

[mischaRS]

Wasnt a rodent, but on list for repair,

 

[cheburator]

I think I am about to join Sam’s club…

Another 2013 GranTurismo Sport MC Shift with 35k miles. Original clutch which doesn’t slip. I get the occasional gear unavailable within the first couple of gear changes or it wouldn’t change down from 5th to say 2nd as I approach nearby traffic lights for example. It would always change gear on the second pull of the respective paddle. Once these are out the way, the rest of the journey the gearbox works like a dream. I think the culprit is the release bearing going bad - sticking seals. No issues in Sport mode - another reason to believe it’s the release bearing - the higher operating pressure overcomes the occasional stickiness in the release bearing.

Went for a drive yesterday with some mates. Had a lovely play in Sussex with an FF and a 964 C2. MC-S mode was epic and all was good. Or so I thought. Stopped to buy a paper on the way home. Re-started the car and got the Check Transmission Go to Dealer. 1st and 2nd and R easily available but nada past that in either mode. Of course if I pull the paddles to get to N, then the box would select the appropriate gear like 5th or 6th or 4th immediately. It would also downchange seamlessly on slowdown.

Car was serviced and clutch was set up by AV about 1750 miles ago. At the time we guessed the clutch to be about 72% worn. PIS is 3.91 and was set up by Aldous. The battery is new and at 12.5V cold, 13.6V with the engine running and it gets charged with a CTeK once every ten days or so. Car gets driven at least once a week.

I have a complete new clutch kit - clutch and flywheel, release bearing, sensor, pilot bearing and RMS. However, I don’t think my problem really is the clutch, despite it nearing the end of its life. It just makes no sense to do 120miles without issues and then suddenly to go boom! It also works great once you get pass the limp home mode…

How difficult is to disconnect the rear bearings from the car’s harness? Also, once I disconnect them - would they leave a permanent fault, which would need to be deleted with the likes of Launch/Thinkdiag/SD3 or plugging them back in and restarting the car should clear them?

Thanks in advance,

Alex

P.S. Have ordered Thinkdiag - it’s made by Launch and claims to do all the special functions for 301 NCR, but won’t be here till Friday and I hate not being able to figure things out like that…

 

[conaero]

Clutch PIS should be 3.19 not 3.91 but I assume that is just a typo.

Your issue sounds more like mine which ended up being a front bearing, not a rear.

If your clutch wear is over 70% worn I would say this is your issue.

 

[cheburator]

Clutch PIS should be 3.19 not 3.91 but I assume that is just a typo.

Your issue sounds more like mine which ended up being a front bearing, not a rear.

If your clutch wear is over 70% worn I would say this is your issue.

Why would it be a front bearing - so far it sounds like Sam’s and Misha’s issue?

Yes, everyone says clutch, but it works and doesn’t slip - what would be the actual thing that’s failed? I guess I need to read the codes…

 

[Sam McGoo]

I think I am about to join Sam’s club…

Another 2013 GranTurismo Sport MC Shift with 35k miles. Original clutch which doesn’t slip. I get the occasional gear unavailable within the first couple of gear changes or it wouldn’t change down from 5th to say 2nd as I approach nearby traffic lights for example. It would always change gear on the second pull of the respective paddle. Once these are out the way, the rest of the journey the gearbox works like a dream. I think the culprit is the release bearing going bad - sticking seals. No issues in Sport mode - another reason to believe it’s the release bearing - the higher operating pressure overcomes the occasional stickiness in the release bearing.

Went for a drive yesterday with some mates. Had a lovely play in Sussex with an FF and a 964 C2. MC-S mode was epic and all was good. Or so I thought. Stopped to buy a paper on the way home. Re-started the car and got the Check Transmission Go to Dealer. 1st and 2nd and R easily available but nada past that in either mode. Of course if I pull the paddles to get to N, then the box would select the appropriate gear like 5th or 6th or 4th immediately. It would also downchange seamlessly on slowdown.

Car was serviced and clutch was set up by AV about 1750 miles ago. At the time we guessed the clutch to be about 72% worn. PIS is 3.91 and was set up by Aldous. The battery is new and at 12.5V cold, 13.6V with the engine running and it gets charged with a CTeK once every ten days or so. Car gets driven at least once a week.

I have a complete new clutch kit - clutch and flywheel, release bearing, sensor, pilot bearing and RMS. However, I don’t think my problem really is the clutch, despite it nearing the end of its life. It just makes no sense to do 120miles without issues and then suddenly to go boom! It also works great once you get pass the limp home mode…

How difficult is to disconnect the rear bearings from the car’s harness? Also, once I disconnect them - would they leave a permanent fault, which would need to be deleted with the likes of Launch/Thinkdiag/SD3 or plugging them back in and restarting the car should clear them?

Thanks in advance,

Alex

P.S. Have ordered Thinkdiag - it’s made by Launch and claims to do all the special functions for 301 NCR, but won’t be here till Friday and I hate not being able to figure things out like that…

I will reply in a bit more detail later, as I'm a bit tight for time right now.
But in the mean time, in answer to your question about the wheel speed sensors, they are easy to get to on a jack if you want to eliminate them.
Jack a corner up (use an axle stand) and unplug.
Front ones are just tucked under the wheel arch liner about 3/4 of the way up to the rear of the coil overs.
Rear ones are just above the fwd part of the lower wishbone clipped to the body.

You can plug one, go for a drive see if gearbox behaviour changes. Come back plug back in and disconnect the next etc.

You will of course get the abs/TCS warnings etc.... But drives fine like that.
The errors will stay logged as historic until cleared, but will only be 'present' on the one that's disconnected or if you had a faulty one.

 

[corradokid]

I think I am about to join Sam’s club…

Another 2013 GranTurismo Sport MC Shift with 35k miles. Original clutch which doesn’t slip. I get the occasional gear unavailable within the first couple of gear changes or it wouldn’t change down from 5th to say 2nd as I approach nearby traffic lights for example. It would always change gear on the second pull of the respective paddle. Once these are out the way, the rest of the journey the gearbox works like a dream. I think the culprit is the release bearing going bad - sticking seals. No issues in Sport mode - another reason to believe it’s the release bearing - the higher operating pressure overcomes the occasional stickiness in the release bearing.

Went for a drive yesterday with some mates. Had a lovely play in Sussex with an FF and a 964 C2. MC-S mode was epic and all was good. Or so I thought. Stopped to buy a paper on the way home. Re-started the car and got the Check Transmission Go to Dealer. 1st and 2nd and R easily available but nada past that in either mode. Of course if I pull the paddles to get to N, then the box would select the appropriate gear like 5th or 6th or 4th immediately. It would also downchange seamlessly on slowdown.

Car was serviced and clutch was set up by AV about 1750 miles ago. At the time we guessed the clutch to be about 72% worn. PIS is 3.91 and was set up by Aldous. The battery is new and at 12.5V cold, 13.6V with the engine running and it gets charged with a CTeK once every ten days or so. Car gets driven at least once a week.

I have a complete new clutch kit - clutch and flywheel, release bearing, sensor, pilot bearing and RMS. However, I don’t think my problem really is the clutch, despite it nearing the end of its life. It just makes no sense to do 120miles without issues and then suddenly to go boom! It also works great once you get pass the limp home mode…

How difficult is to disconnect the rear bearings from the car’s harness? Also, once I disconnect them - would they leave a permanent fault, which would need to be deleted with the likes of Launch/Thinkdiag/SD3 or plugging them back in and restarting the car should clear them?

Thanks in advance,

Alex

P.S. Have ordered Thinkdiag - it’s made by Launch and claims to do all the special functions for 301 NCR, but won’t be here till Friday and I hate not being able to figure things out like that…

Have you had a park off warning on the dash by any chance?

 

[cheburator]

Have you had a park off warning on the dash by any chance?

Just once. Turn the car off and it says EPB on straight away alongside gear engaged. If you are thinking the battery - it’s definitely not. 9mths old, tested with a proper Wurth tester that puts a load on it and it passes with flying colours. 110Ah, 800CCa - this would start a truck.

Got a Diagzone OBD reader - launch pro on a mobile phone - once the interior is back together this weekend will actually read the codes and see what’s what…

What suggestions do you have?

Thanks in advance,

Alex

 

[corradokid]

Just once. Turn the car off and it says EPB on straight away alongside gear engaged. If you are thinking the battery - it’s definitely not. 9mths old, tested with a proper Wurth tester that puts a load on it and it passes with flying colours. 110Ah, 800CCa - this would start a truck.

Got a Diagzone OBD reader - launch pro on a mobile phone - once the interior is back together this weekend will actually read the codes and see what’s what…

What suggestions do you have?

Thanks in advance,

Alex

I have been getting the park off warning on ignition (mostly from cold) intermittently with slow changes over the last couple of months, and its got to the point where I couldn’t get reverse if I tried soon after cold start occasionally. Long story short I seem to have traced it it the selector position being slightly out of spec, the difference between hot and cold in my case seems quite ( around 40 bits if you’ve seen the measured values) large. Im trying to understand if that is normal or a mechanical issue at the moment.

The only code I had was in the ABS module to start with which was missing gearbox can message - invalid signal. This I believe is the TCU saying to the ABS don’t apply the parkbrake, I’m not sure if I’m in gear properly or not. I think this logic could also apply easily to gear changes depending on where the discrepancy is, ie don’t engage the clutch, I’m not sure where I am.

Anyway like I say my issue is out of spec when cold, in when hot. The parallel with your car is mine also had a gearbox self learn carried out a few months ago, looking back this seems to have been the catalyst.

 

[Sam McGoo]

I think I am about to join Sam’s club…

Another 2013 GranTurismo Sport MC Shift with 35k miles. Original clutch which doesn’t slip. I get the occasional gear unavailable within the first couple of gear changes or it wouldn’t change down from 5th to say 2nd as I approach nearby traffic lights for example. It would always change gear on the second pull of the respective paddle. Once these are out the way, the rest of the journey the gearbox works like a dream. I think the culprit is the release bearing going bad - sticking seals. No issues in Sport mode - another reason to believe it’s the release bearing - the higher operating pressure overcomes the occasional stickiness in the release bearing.

Went for a drive yesterday with some mates. Had a lovely play in Sussex with an FF and a 964 C2. MC-S mode was epic and all was good. Or so I thought. Stopped to buy a paper on the way home. Re-started the car and got the Check Transmission Go to Dealer. 1st and 2nd and R easily available but nada past that in either mode. Of course if I pull the paddles to get to N, then the box would select the appropriate gear like 5th or 6th or 4th immediately. It would also downchange seamlessly on slowdown.

Car was serviced and clutch was set up by AV about 1750 miles ago. At the time we guessed the clutch to be about 72% worn. PIS is 3.91 and was set up by Aldous. The battery is new and at 12.5V cold, 13.6V with the engine running and it gets charged with a CTeK once every ten days or so. Car gets driven at least once a week.

I have a complete new clutch kit - clutch and flywheel, release bearing, sensor, pilot bearing and RMS. However, I don’t think my problem really is the clutch, despite it nearing the end of its life. It just makes no sense to do 120miles without issues and then suddenly to go boom! It also works great once you get pass the limp home mode…

How difficult is to disconnect the rear bearings from the car’s harness? Also, once I disconnect them - would they leave a permanent fault, which would need to be deleted with the likes of Launch/Thinkdiag/SD3 or plugging them back in and restarting the car should clear them?

Thanks in advance,

Alex

P.S. Have ordered Thinkdiag - it’s made by Launch and claims to do all the special functions for 301 NCR, but won’t be here till Friday and I hate not being able to figure things out like that…

How you getting on with this? Did you try unplugging ABS sensors or reading codes?

Your theory on sticky release bearing seems a good possibility to me.
A couple of years back my gearbox was occasionally dropping into N when cold - SEE THIS POST

As Conaero kindly told me on that thread, the standard PIS setting is around 4.19. Mine, as is yours, was at 3.93 so had been changed by someone to get faster shifts.
I'm thinking as the cutches get older the release bearing starts to get a bit sticky, and as the PIS was set so low it doesn't get to move a great distance so is on the same bit of shaft, so gets even stickier.

Increasing the PIS puts it onto a 'clean' bit of shaft and when operating, moves a greater distance, which frees it up a bit. At the time I had to put mine to 4.30 to get the car to drive faultlessly and until this wheel speed sensor issue its been faultless. My wear Index is 4000 which I believe is within range as I read 3600-4000 is where they should be.

Now, I might be misunderstanding how this all works and talking absolute b*ll*cks, but in my head it makes sense. lol

I'm not saying this is what's wrong with yours, as you have different symptoms, but an experiment with the PIS settings and gearbox re-learn is an easy place to start before you get any deeper.

 

[cheburator]

How you getting on with this? Did you try unplugging ABS sensors or reading codes?

Your theory on sticky release bearing seems a good possibility to me.
A couple of years back my gearbox was occasionally dropping into N when cold - SEE THIS POST

As Conaero kindly told me on that thread, the standard PIS setting is around 4.19. Mine, as is yours, was at 3.93 so had been changed by someone to get faster shifts.
I'm thinking as the cutches get older the release bearing starts to get a bit sticky, and as the PIS was set so low it doesn't get to move a great distance so is on the same bit of shaft, so gets even stickier.

Increasing the PIS puts it onto a 'clean' bit of shaft and when operating, moves a greater distance, which frees it up a bit. At the time I had to put mine to 4.30 to get the car to drive faultlessly and until this wheel speed sensor issue its been faultless. My wear Index is 4000 which I believe is within range as I read 3600-4000 is where they should be.

Now, I might be misunderstanding how this all works and talking absolute b*ll*cks, but in my head it makes sense. lol

I'm not saying this is what's wrong with yours, as you have different symptoms, but an experiment with the PIS settings and gearbox re-learn is an easy place to start before you get any deeper.

Thank you very much - that’s very informative.

The truth is that I have not made any progress with the clutch.

My OCD got the better of me - I sourced some NOS buttons to replace the ones next to the Nav screen, I have also swapped a new set of wiper/lights stalks and a clock spring. I have refurbished some sticky buttons on the steering wheel, sent off my carbon fibre door handles, mirror caps and rear spoiler for a re-lacquer. The steering wheel is at Royal Steering Wheels for a refurb and in the meantime I am touching up the Bianco Pregiato leather here and there and making sure any sticky surface (not many, luckily) is dealt with. Hopefully, the interior will be back together for good by the end of the week so I can have a play. Don’t want to set off fault codes, in case I struggle to re-set them. It was already losing its marbles when removed the centre console and disconnected the parking brake

 

[Sam McGoo]

Thank you very much - that’s very informative.

The truth is that I have not made any progress with the clutch.

My OCD got the better of me - I sourced some NOS buttons to replace the ones next to the Nav screen, I have also swapped a new set of wiper/lights stalks and a clock spring. I have refurbished some sticky buttons on the steering wheel, sent off my carbon fibre door handles, mirror caps and rear spoiler for a re-lacquer. The steering wheel is at Royal Steering Wheels for a refurb and in the meantime I am touching up the Bianco Pregiato leather here and there and making sure any sticky surface (not many, luckily) is dealt with. Hopefully, the interior will be back together for good by the end of the week so I can have a play. Don’t want to set off fault codes, in case I struggle to re-set them. It was already losing its marbles when removed the centre console and disconnected the parking brake

Thats a busy week!

Out of interest, what are you using to touch up the leather and how's the colour match? Mine is also Bianco Pregiato.
I have a tiny bit of wear on my steering wheel that could do with a touch up.

 

[cheburator]

Thats a busy week!

Out of interest, what are you using to touch up the leather and how's the colour match? Mine is also Bianco Pregiato.
I have a tiny bit of wear on my steering wheel that could do with a touch up.

First things first - update on the clutch issue … put the car back together and decided to bite the bullet anyway and have the clutch and all associated parts changed by Emblem.

I have a massive road trip with the whole family coming up in the Summer - France, all Swiss passes and Stelvio, Modena factory tour, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Germany, Belgium and back to the U.K. The last thing I really want is to be stuck on the side of the road in Serbia with a knackered clutch for the sake of squeezing out a few extra miles out of the old one.

Plugged in my ThinkDiag and the NCR had two stored codes:
P1773 Clutch beyond PIS
P1782 Clutch closure greater than maximum threshold

Reset the codes and since I was in a massive hurry didn’t bother reading/storing other values which I could see at the time such as clutch closed position value, PIS etc. Clutch wear index was 4000. But I think the clutch is really at the end of its life anyway since the self calibrated closed position was 24.05mm.

Once the codes were reset, limp home mode was no longer present and the car drove perfectly from Bromley to Poole, shifting all gears and throwing a wobbly just once when it kind of refused to go from 4th to 1st as I was approaching a set of traffic lights in Bournemouth. At the end it shifted down, but it was with a thud. Not pleasant…

However! Things are almost never perfect - the NCR limp home mode was resolved, but the car threw a new wobbly with ACR Off, ABS, Skyhook etc fault as soon as I moved off the drive. So I guess I will be “taxed” for a wheel bearing/ABS sensor now. Fault wasn’t present when the car went into NCR limp home mode. How can a bearing go bad when the car hasn’t turned a wheel for a month?!

Anyone with Launch - can you point me in the right direction where to find the module? My iOS ThinkDiag cannot find it. Maybe I need to buy a cheap Android tablet - the softwares can be “ported” across as many platforms as one desires and ThinkDiag/Launch say Android is always more current/better…

Now onto leather colouring - I used the Furniture clinic guys - send them a small sample and they colour matched. It really is perfect. I got a spray made as well as fluid. I also got their flexible filler which really works - fiddly to apply, but the results are great once sanded and painted.

Alex

 

[Scaf]

Jesus, you are not having much luck are you.

Great that it’s up and driving, but the issues with the gear change (4th to 1st) you describe is obviously not normal so something is not right.

As for your wheel bearing, my old MC had been faultless, parked it up, then next time I went to start it, dashboard light Christmas tree and a wheel bearing fail.