Make me see sense

[D Walker]

Think so, at least that is what I garnered from above, unless the value is greater than the gfv...

 

[Felonious Crud]

Think so, at least that is what I garnered from above, unless the value is greater than the gfv...

GFVs are generally pretty low compared to a reasonable estimate of what you can expect in xx years (i.e. current prices of similar age / spec cars available now, if you see what I mean). So there’s generally equity in a car. According to the broker I use, most of his customers change cars every year, so it’s irrelevant. I’m unusual because I tend to keep my cars a bit longer. The GTS I had for six years (and loved every minute). Back to your point, some dealers will give a very low GFV which will leave you with a lot of equity but makes the monthly payments so high you think bollox to it or just decide to pay cash.

If you get a good finance deal that frees up cash or residual income for more lucrative investments (business, accelerated mortgage payments, pension, blah blah blah) then finance makes more sense than cash. If you can’t get a good deal then you, the dealer or the broker aren’t trying hard enough.

 

[Wattie]

Do I get the sense that many people confuse the concept of financing a car with that of renting one? Like the deposit and the monthly payments will never be seen again and your beloved car will be snatched cruelly from your grasp at the end of the term?

Yes I think that’s the case.... it needs expanded upon.
Hence the confusion.

 

[hashluck]

Finance house and dealer will set GFV low for 2 reasons

1) It is guaranteed so they will take a hit if the actual value ends up less

2) They want you to have some equity as the deposit on the next shiny new car they want to sell you.

Keep the deposit low, which is always dead money, and the way I see it is if you can make your capital work harder than the finance rate being charged and with a GFV then why wouldn't you?

I tend to keep my cars longer and those on finance I do 'buy' at the end of the term even if only to sell immediately as there is always some equity. I rarely trade in to the dealer I am buying my next car from as I can usually get a better price elsewhere.

So only do it if you can afford to is my advice which is a bit back to front as most people use it to get into a car they otherwise couldn't. I would say perhaps use if for a car you otherwise wouldn't as it would take all your capital. And it is amazing how quickly and easily you get used to those payments and don't waste the money elsewhere. You are just wasting it on a car instead

 

[Wattie]

So, to summarise.

1. It isn’t a magically cheap way into an exotic “Marque”- that everyone has missed.
2. It’s reliant to some degree on your relationship with your dealer/finance house and how they balance the “deal” GFv/monthly payments etc.
3. Finance x% but I can get x+ on my capital instead (not assured I would have thought- UNLESS you talk to Wattie about the incredible returns on Gold he can offer))
4. “So only do it if you can afford to is my advice which is a bit back to front as most people use it to get into a car they otherwise couldn't.”

That seems sound advice.

Has anything been missed? FC,IW?

 

[Felonious Crud]

Has anything been missed? FC,IW?

Nope, I'd say our learned friend has nailed it.

 

[Wattie]

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Wonder if this will affect GFV’s.

 

[Ewan]

The shares have further to fall, as even their revised target of just over 6000 new cars sales sounds too high to me. The list prices of their new cars are too high and the depreciation is horrific - what does an average DB11 lose in its first year - £50k? Who wants to buy into that? Add to that the increased likelihood of a no deal Brexit and the resulting recession...

 

[Wattie]

Ther shares have further to fall, as even their revised target of just over 6000 new cars sales sounds too high to me. The list prices of their new cars are too high and the depreciation is horrific - what does an average DB11 lose in its first year - £50k? Who wants to buy into that? Add to that the increased likelihood of a no deal Brexit and the resulting recession...

Agreed, although a cheap £ may help exports......needs to, to overcome the depreciation!
Quadrise taking a battering too at the mo. I didn’t take a punt but I still might......whats your thoughts?

 

[rockits]

I can't believe the industry or everyone didn't see that a reduction in car sales was likely or invetable.

The world's general prepensity for growth is unsustainable and not workable. We need to be growing less and being more sustainable.

Why don't the car manufacturers shift to make cars that are twice the price but last 3 times as long. Sweating the raw material assets in the process?

The answer of course is not our part disposable society, not even recycling although of course that is better. The answer is to make stuff that lasts longer surely? We did this a hundred years ago and seem to have gone backwards.

McDonalds need to ban plastic Happy Meals toys....let kids play with the recyclable cardboard box. If you look carefully there is so much waste and needless one use disposable stuff about it is untrue.

What we need are real true visionaries. I dispise Apple and all the global corporate giants but respect and applause Steve Jobs immensely. Bill Gates is another I applaud and respect. All these guys have made differences with their creative thinking. We need more of these guys. Elon Musk is another. Can't say I know or endear myself to him but he is a creative visionary.

We need people making good decisions for the future today. We are 10/20/30 years behind in our thinking. Unless this changes we will continue to keep going forwards at such a crazy rate in real terms we will always be going backwards at break neck speeds.

The Internet is another example of crazy growth faster than the security that is required to police it. We are 5 years behind on that one IMHO.

Step forward true creative visionaries.....your globe needs you.

 

[Wattie]

I can't believe the industry or everyone didn't see that a reduction in car sales was likely or invetable.

The world's general prepensity for growth is unsustainable and not workable. We need to be growing less and being more sustainable.

Why don't the car manufacturers shift to make cars that are twice the price but last 3 times as long. Sweating the raw material assets in the process?

The answer of course is not our part disposable society, not even recycling although of course that is better. The answer is to make stuff that lasts longer surely? We did this a hundred years ago and seem to have gone backwards.

McDonalds need to ban plastic Happy Meals toys....let kids play with the recyclable cardboard box. If you look carefully there is so much waste and needless one use disposable stuff about it is untrue.

What we need are real true visionaries. I dispise Apple and all the global corporate giants but respect and applause Steve Jobs immensely. Bill Gates is another I applaud and respect. All these guys have made differences with their creative thinking. We need more of these guys. Elon Musk is another. Can't say I know or endear myself to him but he is a creative visionary.

We need people making good decisions for the future today. We are 10/20/30 years behind in our thinking. Unless this changes we will continue to keep going forwards at such a crazy rate in real terms we will always be going backwards at break neck speeds.

The Internet is another example of crazy growth faster than the security that is required to police it. We are 5 years behind on that one IMHO.

Step forward true creative visionaries.....your globe needs you.

I agree.
Trouble is everyone lives for today.....few can see the benefit of tomorrow.

 

[rockits]

Weird isn't it....in most lifetimes the worsening tomorrow is still very much in our lifetime. So in essence we are making it worse for our own future in our own lifetime. Not even for the next generation.

The thing I find the most frustrating especially after always having a small business able to make decisions and changes quickly is how chuffing long it takes to arrive at change. Often it is too late as things have changed or it is almost always never enough.

Need some very big and very bold creative decisions. I'm not even sure Boris or Trump are crazy or bold enough for the changes that are really required.

 

[GeoffCapes]

Weird isn't it....in most lifetimes the worsening tomorrow is still very much in our lifetime. So in essence we are making it worse for our own future in our own lifetime. Not even for the next generation.

The thing I find the most frustrating especially after always having a small business able to make decisions and changes quickly is how chuffing long it takes to arrive at change. Often it is too late as things have changed or it is almost always never enough.

Need some very big and very bold creative decisions. I'm not even sure Boris or Trump are crazy or bold enough for the changes that are really required.

Things take too long, purely and simply because we live in a blame culture and no one wants to be the one in the firing line if things go wrong.

This means that no one actually makes a decision.
This also means that bodies (public bodies in particular) employ hundreds of paper shufflers, who do nothing but read paper and then pass it on to someone else to check and do the same thing.

Drives me insane!

 

[rockits]

I don't get this current desire to keep building one off and small runs of £1m+ Hyercars. What is the point?

It is using ridiculous amounts of raw materials and labour time to provide cars that will be driving for maybe 1% of their time on this planet.

Imagine if you said I want to start a company and run at 1% efficiency....comical!

Why are we building this stuff? Lovely to look at but what is the point? Just because I can and some seriously wealthy idiot will buy it then I will make it....wholely irresponsible in the real world.

 

[Wattie]

I don't get this current desire to keep building one off and small runs of £1m+ Hyercars. What is the point?

It is using ridiculous amounts of raw materials and labour time to provide cars that will be driving for maybe 1% of their time on this planet.

Imagine if you said I want to start a company and run at 1% efficiency....comical!

Why are we building this stuff? Lovely to look at but what is the point? Just because I can and some seriously wealthy idiot will buy it then I will make it....wholely irresponsible in the real world.

Cheaper and more effective than spending on a global advertising budget.......for a high performance brand?

 

[safrane]

Cut world population and you cure the problem in one generation.

China had the right idea some decades back but have moved tact now. If couples had just one child it would help rhe environment hugely.

However we need more people financially to pay for the increased elderly who have all the money and property... yep messed up good and proper so I will live for today.

 

[conaero]

However we need more people financially to pay for the increased elderly who have all the money and property... yep messed up good and proper so I will live for today.

...but you cant blame the old for their mentality, they worked hard and saved their money, not spending it on the above cars so they could be secure in their old age.

If they avoid the Care Home asset strip, the money is passed to their siblings.

Todays young do have a "if I can get the credit, I'm having it" attitude which is also fine but in their later years they wont have the assets and the drain will be far worse.

Regards, ageing person, Chichester

 

[Wattie]

. yep messed up good and proper so I will live for today.

Ahhh hindsight.
The greatest investment tool of all time that reminds u if how much of a tool u were.

Have I told you all about the time I won littlewoods pools 9/10 score draws when I was 19......1984.

Don’t beat yourself up.

 

[Felonious Crud]

...but you cant blame the old for their mentality, they worked hard and saved their money, not spending it on the above cars so they could be secure in their old age.

If they avoid the Care Home asset strip, the money is passed to their siblings.

Todays young do have a "if I can get the credit, I'm having it" attitude which is also fine but in their later years they wont have the assets and the drain will be far worse.

Regards, ageing person, Chichester

This is interesting, young Matty. In our yoof we were encouraged to get a foot on the housing ladder, often with a >100% LTV mortgage. Now, the poor buggers can't even get a toe on because the average house price in the UK is £227k and the average full-time salary is £35k. At a 3x salary multiplier, today's yoof would need to save £120k in cash before they could buy the average house on their average salary. So they may as well go and lease a daft car and spunk it all on the latest Apple stuff.

Still, it's certainly true that the world is massively overpopulated. I quite like it here, though, and I'm looking forward to LM 2020, so I won't yet be volunteering for the cull.

 

[Wattie]

This is interesting, young Matty. In our yoof we were encouraged to get a foot on the housing ladder, often with a >100% LTV mortgage. Now, the poor buggers can't even get a toe on because the average house price in the UK is £227k and the average full-time salary is £35k. At a 3x salary multiplier, today's yoof would need to save £120k in cash before they could buy the average house on their average salary. So they may as well go and lease a daft car and spunk it all on the latest Apple stuff.

Kinda confirms the bubble theory eh fc? When we were growing up at least we had a chance of buying our first house.