my 3200 'project'

[2b1ask1]

Oh my goodness Beau; I first looked at the oily image it looked ok, then you notice the first bent one and so it goes on...

Nothing that cannot be fixed with a deep breath and even deeper pockets, not forgetting a bucket full of patience and an understanding wife!

 

[philw696]

Just remember cleanliness is next to godliness so important in doing this repair and you will get the maximum power without costing dollar only time. When back together run her with some good engine flush a couple of times I use Forte treatments. Phil.

 

[conaero]

Your issue is the cost of the valves.

Its looking like they are sold in pairs, as in per cylinder. For both pairs or inlet and outlets, its £70 plus VAT, so times by 8 and you have a reasonable £560. Add to this the head gaskets that are £120 each from memory, rear chains plus some seals and you are up to £1000.

If you are going to rebuild the heads yourself, then I think you might as well repair what you have along as the pistons are not damaged and you also have to bear in mind that you could have distorted the crank bearing shells which will show up in the coming few thousand miles, and you might also put it all back together and it simply run rubbish.

If you could find a low mileage used unit, then this could be a good route to take. You could always rebuild your current engine and keep it as a spare or sell it.

I think Drellis's idea of finding a cat smashed car and robbing the engine and interior is worth considering too. For £3k you could have all the parts to make a very nice car plus all the spares you will ever need.

 

[dickygrace]

Rob Whithead's engine I think is still available.

 

[beau]

i have spoken to a maser specialist because i was worried about piston/crank bearing damage and he said they are very strong, will be fine

 

[BennyD]

IIRC, you can replace the shells without taking the pistons out.

 

[beau]

well i dont plan on touching the bottom end, iv been told it will be fine and looks like the valves have taken the impact mainly

 

[beau]

ok, both heads are finally off! really happy with how the pistons/bores look so should all be fine, just got to sort out valves etc and start sorting it out

 

[Fat Arnie]

i have spoken to a maser specialist because i was worried about piston/crank bearing damage and he said they are very strong, will be fine

Probably the single most worrying statement I have read on the web for a while.

Any, or should I say every engine builder will tell you to get the bottom end components removed and checked.

It is very very likely you have a bent crank, and that the rods are out of round. This will likely cause everything you have just paid out on to grenade once you reassemble and give it the beans.

If you remove the sump, it is relatively simple to check, but you will need to remove the main caps (except front and rear) and the bid ends. When you refix the big ends be sure to use new bolts and the correct grease on the threads. You can measure crank run out with a dial gauge in situ, rods you will need to take to a specialist.

A bent crank can be ground true. Rods will need replacing.

You can also replace the pistons with some undamaged ones, as the current ones will be out of balance and could well be hiding hairline cracks around the small ends.

Get rods and pistons at least static balanced before reassembly.

Whoever mentioned buying a 2nd hand engine probably gave you the best advice.

 

[Paul3200]

Good luck with the project. I like it but if she were mine from a cosmetic point of view I would lose the black wheels and tints and put some nice silver alloys on her.

Regards
Paul

 

[dunnah01]

I've had a couple of snapped belts and bent valves before on other cars. I've replaced the cylinder heads with a used ones on both engines (Alfa and Rover) and they went on to cover many thousands of miles afterwards with no issues so I'd say either replace the valves or even easier replace the cylinder heads - they appear on ebay fairly frequently. Both belts failed by the stud holding the tensioner pulley failing. As a DIY'er it's always easier to work on the stuff at the top rather than engine out so try the heads and if it works, result - if not you have a pair of cylinder heads to sell on.

 

[beau]

i have ordered a pair of cylinder heads under advice of a specialist who rebuilds these engines i was told to leave the bottom end alone

 

[davy83]

I have also replaced cylinder heads on two cars with snapped belts, but nothing as exotic as this engine. neither of them showed any adverse signs after the event, but i am kind of siding with the cautious people on here. I would think stripping the bottom end and having it checked might not be as much work as you think and would give you a confident feeling going forward. I think there is no doubt you might get away with just replacing the heads, but.... You may want to consider how you would cope if the engine ran badly or failed in a few months or a year, if you are prepared for a further strip down and/or replacement engine it may be worth just running with it see how it goes. However having maintained my 3200 for 3 years now i have not experienced many occasions where the car was forgiving! meticulous detail appears to be the only route to reliable running, its a joy and a pain at the same time.

 

[Rex B]

Hi

I agree with Davy I would take the engine out and check the bottom end. You have gone so far it would be a shame not to complete the job and if its a manual you could renew the trust washers which are always a concern. It will also make setting up the cams easier and pay dividents in the long term.

Rex B

Manaul 3200

 

[conaero]

I'll second the above comments, you are three quarters of the way there now, why risk it for a little more input

 

[Fat Arnie]

I think you can check the crank for straightness in situ. The most obvious signs of trouble will be big end ovality. These have to be round. The spec states 50.61mm + 0.009 / -0.010mm That is a very very very tight tolerance.


But back to white 3200s, they're becoming common.....http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayIS...81&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123#ht_537wt_1397

 

[beau]

I think you can check the crank for straightness in situ. The most obvious signs of trouble will be big end ovality. These have to be round. The spec states 50.61mm + 0.009 / -0.010mm That is a very very very tight tolerance.


But back to white 3200s, they're becoming common.....http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayIS...81&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123#ht_537wt_1397

i will have a another word with some specialists who know these engines/rebuild them and see what they say re measuring the bottom end to check for any damage.

and ah yes another white one, nice to see another one! doesnt sound so great though, cat D, auto and the headlights are still in grey, and the 'only resprayed due to tired paintwork' sounds rather suspect!

 

[beau]

i managed to get a fantastic condition pair of heads from 'breakeronly' on here, arrived today.

just awaiting on my delivery from eurospares now.

 

[Fat Arnie]

It looks like if the flat sump cover is removed, the sump baffle and pick up pipe can be removed and you will get access to the mains and big ends. You only need measure ovality of the big ends on those which have a damaged piston on the other end.

You can measure the crank run out with a dial gauge and undo the 2nd 3rd and 4th journal. slide out the shell under the crank and measure. I often build 10,000 rpm full on race engines for fun and we work to less then 0.001" run out (0.002" total) on a crank.

You should be able to do all this with the engine in the car. Much easier if its on a lift!

 

[beau]

is using the 'piston stop' method to find the TDC suitable for this engine? dont see why not but thought id check.

having the heads off means i can easily make something to use too.