Vaccination Purpose

[allandwf]

There has been a lot of debate, good and bad, regarding the above. Apologies if it resurrects bad feelings, but... I like most of us have been double jagged, but tested positive today with PCR test, mild symptoms. So obviously the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it, but may alleviate symptoms, yet double vaccinated seems to be a passport for many to go out and about. Thoughts?

 

[Hawk13]

the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it, but may alleviate symptoms, yet double vaccinated seems to be a passport for many to go out and about.

Correct - as with any vaccine it dramatically reduces likelihood of infection and severity so that the virus becomes manageable (as with influenza).

 

[GeoffCapes]

This is where most people are getting confused with the jab.

A vaccine reduces severity.
An immunisation stops you catching it.

Most think of a vaccine like the polio jab (immunisation) you got as a kid.

I don't understand the thought process though, double jabbed and you can go and do what you want, as you can still get infected and spread it to millions.
As someone who is not double jabbed could do the same.

I guess once we get to 90%+ of people jabbed, Covid becomes just like the flu and we have to live with it????

 

[zagatoes30]

Like any vaccination the chances of future infection is less and the symptoms are likely to be reduced due to the immune system being in a better position to react. Therefore the impact of infection is lower, more inline with flu or common cold and therefore a risk that is deemed acceptable. Other precautions, mask wearing, social distancing, reduced travel etc all may further decrease the chance of infection. The UK government seems to have now deferred these additional precautions to individuals and businesses rather than mandate so they and us will have to choose what precautions we are prepared to accept.

The biggest concern from my perspective is the chance of further mutation, the more an infection replicates the greater the chance of mutation therefore if infection rates are still high, even if less serious, then there is more chance of a mutation becoming more resilient. I don't know if this infection is more prone to mutations that are more resilient than others but if it is we may be just pushing the problem further down the timeline, I guess only time will tell.

 

[zagatoes30]

One interesting stat I see now is that Ireland was really slow getting a vaccination programme in place, way behind the UK but the advantage of having a significantly smaller and a very socially compliant population has led to the vaccination rate here now passing that of the UK

 

[CatmanV2]

It doesn't really matter if you infect 'millions' if very few of them are going to get sick. Much like we don't really stop people with 'flu going out and infecting loads of others because the vast majority of them will be feeling lick **** for a couple of days - week and then recover just fine.

C

 

[CatmanV2]

Like any vaccination the chances of future infection is less and the symptoms are likely to be reduced due to the immune system being in a better position to react. Therefore the impact of infection is lower, more inline with flu or common cold and therefore a risk that is deemed acceptable. Other precautions, mask wearing, social distancing, reduced travel etc all may further decrease the chance of infection. The UK government seems to have now deferred these additional precautions to individuals and businesses rather than mandate so they and us will have to choose what precautions we are prepared to accept.

The biggest concern from my perspective is the chance of further mutation, the more an infection replicates the greater the chance of mutation therefore if infection rates are still high, even if less serious, then there is more chance of a mutation becoming more resilient. I don't know if this infection is more prone to mutations that are more resilient than others but if it is we may be just pushing the problem further down the timeline, I guess only time will tell.

All lifeforms mutate all the time. Yes the higher the number of generations (which will be linked to the viable organisms and therefore the infected hosts) the higher the number of mutations in an absolute.
But most mutations actually harm the organism. And the majority of what's left tend to the norm of having less severe impacts on the hosts. (Note not less transmissable)

C

 

[allandwf]

Informed by work that once igo back after isolation they won't do the preflight tests as I will probably test positive for the next month or two! I'll just be given dispensation. If this is the case, when do you stop being a carrier, after symptoms subside? I'd like to k ow so I don't pass it on to the vulnerable. I would like to think less than ten days as this is the isolation time issues now. Anyway I have ten days of being a leper to ponder.

 

[bigbob]

There has been a lot of debate, good and bad, regarding the above. Apologies if it resurrects bad feelings, but... I like most of us have been double jagged, but tested positive today with PCR test, mild symptoms. So obviously the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it, but may alleviate symptoms, yet double vaccinated seems to be a passport for many to go out and about. Thoughts?

It is an interesting topic. I read something recently that said that postive tests for those pinged were three times higher for unvaccinated compared with vaccinated people. This might surprise some that it is not more than a triple multiplier but vaccinated people also onward transmit covid to a lower degree and have milder symptoms. Hope you get better soon and glad your symptoms are as expected.

PS Whilst we have to get back to normal you won't get me on a plane anytime soon with the air handling protocols most have.

 

[MarkMas]

.....
A vaccine reduces severity.
An immunisation stops you catching it.
....

I don't quite see it that way.

Vaccination is the process of getting a vaccine. The vaccination is intended to provoke an immune response, and so if it works, then it is, in effect, an 'immunisation', after a bit. So you are (more or less) immune after you have got the vaccine. I think that is equally true for the vaccinations for Covid, Polio, smallpox and anything else.

But people tend to use the terms interchangeably.

 

[MarkMas]

There has been a lot of debate, good and bad, regarding the above. Apologies if it resurrects bad feelings, but... I like most of us have been double jagged, but tested positive today with PCR test, mild symptoms. So obviously the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it, but may alleviate symptoms, yet double vaccinated seems to be a passport for many to go out and about. Thoughts?

As a few people have kinda already said:

Even if your immune system has been provoked and prepared by the vaccination, you might still get exposed to the virus and be fighting it off (or you might just have some viruses in or on your body due to contact with an infected person), which may show up positive on a test. But if you have been (more or less) immunised by having the vaccine, you will fight off the virus more effectively, meaning that it reproduces much less, and you will be shedding only a few viruses when you cough, rather than millions. It's not just about 'alleviating symptoms' but massively reducing the reproducibility of the the virus. So vaccinated people might still test positive, but they are MUCH less of a danger to others (and themselves) than un-vaccinated people.

 

[CatmanV2]

Informed by work that once igo back after isolation they won't do the preflight tests as I will probably test positive for the next month or two! I'll just be given dispensation. If this is the case, when do you stop being a carrier, after symptoms subside? I'd like to k ow so I don't pass it on to the vulnerable. I would like to think less than ten days as this is the isolation time issues now. Anyway I have ten days of being a leper to ponder.

Well this has always been one of the issues. Testing positive <> being infectious. It's a marker but it's not 1:1 and never was. Of course most of the time people aren't interested in understanding the difference......

C

 

[Dman666]

I've just taken part in a research test into COVID antibodies transferring from vaccinated donors on immunoglobulins used for treatment to people like me.
Also how COVID afftects certain blood conditions after vaccine.
There is small signs that COVID antibodies are present and transferred by blood donors who are vaccinated which is promising news.

 

[Scaf]

This is where most people are getting confused with the jab.

A vaccine reduces severity.
An immunisation stops you catching it.

Most think of a vaccine like the polio jab (immunisation) you got as a kid.

never thought of it like that so had a Google, which explains it slightly differently

 

[Wack61]

It doesn't really matter if you infect 'millions' if very few of them are going to get sick. Much like we don't really stop people with 'flu going out and infecting loads of others because the vast majority of them will be feeling lick **** for a couple of days - week and then recover just fine.

C

Exactly

Many of the elderly are now scared to leave the house, I met a woman yesterday , 82 , she's not left the house other than to go to the supermarket when she's desperate since last March , she told me she's now agoraphobic and when she does have to leave the house is a nervous wreck until she's back home, what a way to end your life, terrified and alone.

At the start when people thought it was Ebola and millions would die compliance was very high but now they've seen very few healthy people have died there's not much chance of another lockdown working, though many who are on a fixed income would be happy for the rest of the population to go through it.

86 people died WITH CV19 , out of a population of how many million , if somebody had written the last 18 months as a book the publishers wouldn't have made it past the first chapter before it was in the bin.

 

[CatmanV2]

86 people died WITH CV19

Yeah that number is creeping up slowly it seems, but nothing like the levels it was previously with this level of cases. London felt, in many ways, normal this week, especially with delays on the line making the Central Line properly crowded.

From memory the average number of daily deaths in the UK is about 1300 (CBA to check right now) so it's a not insignificant percentage, but also a number of that 86 died of something completely different, as your capitalisation implies

C

 

[mjheathcote]

We had the 'covid police' visit us when we were in our second 10 day isolation when our daughter caught it a month ago (who had one jab at that time).
He was quite helpful actually checking we where okay. Suprising to us at that time he was very interested to whether the rest of us had caught it from our daughter, as their experience was that once it was in the household, double jabbed or not, everyone generally caught it.
We didn't in the end, but our daughter being 16, she spends most of the time in her bedroom anyway!

 

[Doohickey]

Friend of a friend has just died from Covid despite being double jabbed. Don't know if he had any underlying health issues but just goes to show that you still need to be careful.

 

[Sam McGoo]

Friend of a friend has just died from Covid despite being double jabbed. Don't know if he had any underlying health issues but just goes to show that you still need to be careful.

Three weeks ago, my oldest friend (known him since I was 2 years old) died at home. Suspected heart attack, but had spent most of the previous week quite ill in bed with Covid.
He was a bit anti establishment, and also was convinced he'd already had it last year, so didn't want the vaccine.

45 years old, no underlying conditions, leaves a wife and 3years old daughter behind.

 

[Marco07]

Mrs Marco and I have been on a Office of National Statistics survey scheme since COVID landed on our radar. We are tested every month with blood tests and receive feedback/results. It’s been very interesting.

After our first jab I was showing anti-bodies but Mrs M wasn’t. After the 2nd jab we both showed anti-bodies but we suspect Mrs M only really has a one jab defence. I.e. the first jab didn’t work for her. We are down to get the booster in Oc.

Neither of us have had Covid.