You can watch TV whilst driving

Chrisb2015 · Apr 20, 2022

Apparently you will now be able to watch TV legally whilst supposedly in control of a self driving car.

Highway Code: Watching TV in self-driving cars to be allowed

Mobile phone use while driving will remain illegal, as changes to the Highway Code are announced.

www.bbc.co.uk

Absolute madness. So on one hand the government is consulting on speed limiters in cars due to speed related incidents but thinks this is a good idea. Changing a Spotify song on your phone or even touching it will remain banned however. Clear….?

MarkMas · Apr 20, 2022

Well, in a totally self-driving car, I guess the 'passengers' should be able to occupy themselves however they like (as on a train, where you are not doing the driving). But in a semi-autonomous car it does seem a bit bad.

BUT to expect the driver of a mostly-autonomous car to be fully alert and available to take over in an instant, also seems unrealistic. This is the danger area, where the car is mostly doing the driving, but the 'driver' is supposed to stay absolutely alert and poised to take over - what is the point of that setup?

My old Audi A8 had a TV, and the picture cut out if you went over about 2 mph. That worked pretty well queuing in VERY slow traffic to get into Oxford on the A40 years ago, where you could watch pretty much all of a show as you wobbled between stationary and 5 mph for an hour.

Chrisb2015 · Apr 20, 2022

Does anyone know who is liable in an accident when the car is in self drive mode? Assuming the accident is considered the fault of the self driving car? If you are allowed to watch TV legally but also still potentially liable for an accident then this is bonkers.
FWIW I am not against technology driven progress, far from it but a little consistency and common sense would be welcome. And maybe they should ask the question, is this really progress?

Doohickey · Apr 20, 2022

Chrisb2015 said:
Does anyone know who is liable in an accident when the car is in self drive mode? Assuming the accident is considered the fault of the self driving car? If you are allowed to watch TV legally but also still potentially liable for an accident then this is bonkers.
FWIW I am not against technology driven progress, far from it but a little consistency and common sense would be welcome. And maybe they should ask the question, is this really progress?

From what I've read, this is one of the big problems preventing rolling out autonomous cars more quickly. I think the insurers are trying to make the OEM responsible where it is fully autonomous so they are reluctant to push forward. There's still a lot of problems to iron out as demonstrated by in the US by Teslas not being able to 'see' white trucks on a bright day for example.

CatmanV2 · Apr 20, 2022

There are lots of issues, but there were with early cars. **** there are with cars now. They will get addressed and lawyers will make money.

But it's certainly not clear now

C

safrane · Apr 20, 2022

Chrisb2015 said:
Does anyone know who is liable in an accident when the car is in self drive mode? Assuming the accident is considered the fault of the self driving car? If you are allowed to watch TV legally but also still potentially liable for an accident then this is bonkers.
FWIW I am not against technology driven progress, far from it but a little consistency and common sense would be welcome. And maybe they should ask the question, is this really progress?

As per the article.

...They will also lay out that users of self-driving cars will not be responsible for crashes.
Instead insurance companies, not individuals, will be liable for claims in many circumstances, the DfT said.

CatmanV2 · Apr 20, 2022

MarkMas said:
BUT to expect the driver of a mostly-autonomous car to be fully alert and available to take over in an instant, also seems unrealistic.

Utterly bonkers. If you wanted to pick a thing that humans are really bad at, it's staying alert, doing nothing for long periods. Ask anyone on guard duty....

C

midlifecrisis · Apr 20, 2022

It's one thing to watch the TV whilst autonomously driving but it's the fight with the Yagi antenna to get a decent reception that will cause accidents.

Crazy idea.

Chrisb2015 · Apr 20, 2022

safrane said:
As per the article.

...They will also lay out that users of self-driving cars will not be responsible for crashes.
Instead insurance companies, not individuals, will be liable for claims in many circumstances, the DfT said.

So in the very unfortunate event of a fatality who is actually at fault? If it is the insurance company is it corporate manslaughter?

Gooner · Apr 20, 2022

Chrisb2015 said:
Apparently you will now be able to watch TV legally whilst supposedly in control of a self driving car…Changing a Spotify song on your phone or even touching it will remain banned however. Clear….?

This makes some sense to me. The car can turn off the TV if it needs you to take control, but can’t turn off your phone. It can’t stop you talking to your mates, drinking, having sex or any one of the many things people might do in self-driving cars, but maybe they will all be in the next round of legislation.

Personally it seems like another manufactured ‘problem’ that can only be solved by 100’s of billions of pounds being spent so that all of us living in rich nations can feel like we are living in the future.

We could all just drive a bit more carefully and a bit less, and spend the 100’s of billions on something else.

safrane · Apr 20, 2022

It would only be CMs if the company was aware of an issue with that type of car and those at the top ignored it.

The following would need to be proved:

the Insurance Co is a qualifying organisation;
the organisation owed a relevant duty of care to the deceased;
there was a gross breach of that duty by the organisation;
the way in which its activities were managed or organised by its senior management was a substantial element in the breach; and
the gross breach of the organisation’s duty caused or contributed to the death.

HenrysDad · Apr 20, 2022

Chrisb2015 said:
So in the very unfortunate event of a fatality who is actually at fault? If it is the insurance company is it corporate manslaughter?

Perhaps it would be the producers of the TV programme. If it was very interesting accidents are more likely, if it was some awful reality TV rubbish my eyes would be glued to the road.

MarkMas · Apr 20, 2022

Chrisb2015 said:
So in the very unfortunate event of a fatality who is actually at fault? If it is the insurance company is it corporate manslaughter?

There is no way the insurance company would be liable for corporate manslaughter, any more than it is for a car accident where the human driver is at fault. The insurer is just picking up the costs of the accident consequences. It would be the manufacturer of the self-driving car who might have a liability, with the criteria that @safrane has set out.

MarkMas · Apr 20, 2022

The whole thing is fraught with ethical, psychological and legal issues.

Human drivers kill about 1,500 people a year in the UK (and that is VERY low compared with most other countries), but when a self-driving car kills ONE person, there will be a whole whoo-ha.

Also, if you have a heart attack and die while your car is taking you to an event, should the car detect this and just drive you to the morgue, or should it just deliver a dead passenger to the planned destination?

If you tell your car to take you to Wetherspoons, should it be able to refuse and insist on taking you to a real pub?

If you are wearing a Maserati shirt when you get into a Tesla, should the car be allowed to sulk until you get changed?

The problems are endless...

GeoffCapes · Apr 20, 2022

I can't be alone in thinking autonomous driving cars are a really bad idea can I?

With the state of roads in this country and the fact that most are not straight or flat and that you need constant driving inputs means that an autonomous car could never cope with every possible nuance of road, surface, obstacle and type of traffic (from pedestrian to HGV).

Templar · Apr 20, 2022

Absolute madness. Of course we all know computers never make mistakes

CatmanV2 · Apr 20, 2022

GeoffCapes said:
I can't be alone in thinking autonomous driving cars are a really bad idea can I?

With the state of roads in this country and the fact that most are not straight or flat and that you need constant driving inputs means that an autonomous car could never cope with every possible nuance of road, surface, obstacle and type of traffic (from pedestrian to HGV).

Neither can people. The question is, which one will be better. Undoubtedly computers will be. At some point

C

Felonious Crud · Apr 20, 2022

I'm still waiting for the PronHub app on CarPlay.

Hands on the wheel, Crud!

safrane · Apr 20, 2022

In time you will struggle to get cover/authority to drive the car and when that happens there is no point owning one as transport will be just a point A-B tool

GeoffCapes · Apr 20, 2022

CatmanV2 said:
Neither can people. The question is, which one will be better. Undoubtedly computers will be. At some point

C

But then computers are programmed by humans.....

I feel this could all end with Skynet sending a Terminator!

You can watch TV whilst driving

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