Compelling evidence.....or not?

[sionie1]

Understandable view.
There are so many of these clips going around- some from the NASA astronaut are credible/incredible too....

If you’re a non believer What are the craft in the clips then and who’s are they?

I reckon it’s entirely possible that “reverse engineering” has been taking place for years.

I’m not an unbeliever but would question why if aliens have made contact they’ve not done it on FA cup final day with 70k witnesses. There’s plenty of technology that the military have devised over the years that has been kept secret, and take the pilot out of the equation ( so remote devices) and the incredible changes of direction are more explainable particularly if new means of propulsion are being devised.
There’s also an interesting theory that any intelligent life capable of send interstellar vehicles is most likely already extinct. Intelligent life self-destructs. Whether via weapons of mass destruction, planetary pollution, or manufactured virulent disease, it may be the nature of intelligent species to commit suicide, existing for only a short time before winking out of existence. The universe is a deadly place. On cosmic timescales – think billions of years – life may be fleeting. All it takes is a single asteroid, supernova, gamma ray burst, or solar flare to render a life-harboring planet lifeless.
We like to question the meaning of life , hence religion, and the fact that we can’t possibly be alone, but maybe we are, just a freak accident in a muddy pond. So, I’m not a believer nor an unbeliever , I’m just waiting for some nice high def. pictures of Spock and his pals.

 

[Wattie]

I’m not an unbeliever but would question why if aliens have made contact they’ve not done it on FA cup final day with 70k witnesses. There’s plenty of technology that the military have devised over the years that has been kept secret, and take the pilot out of the equation ( so remote devices) and the incredible changes of direction are more explainable particularly if new means of propulsion are being devised.
There’s also an interesting theory that any intelligent life capable of send interstellar vehicles is most likely already extinct. Intelligent life self-destructs. Whether via weapons of mass destruction, planetary pollution, or manufactured virulent disease, it may be the nature of intelligent species to commit suicide, existing for only a short time before winking out of existence. The universe is a deadly place. On cosmic timescales – think billions of years – life may be fleeting. All it takes is a single asteroid, supernova, gamma ray burst, or solar flare to render a life-harboring planet lifeless.
We like to question the meaning of life , hence religion, and the fact that we can’t possibly be alone, but maybe we are, just a freak accident in a muddy pond. So, I’m not a believer nor an unbeliever , I’m just waiting for some nice high def. pictures of Spock and his pals.

Interesting views.
So what do you make of the radar videos from the military?

 

[sionie1]

surely if anyone gains in ufo sightings it’s the military? Investment into everything , add an air of mystery to make it seem plausible and away you go. ‘Ah yes minister we can’t explain it.. nope we don’t have anything capable of doing that.. the Russians? Don’t think so but they might. China possibly.. We need more money please.. thanks...’
Almost every theory is plausible on this subject or could be correct.

 

[Wattie]

surely if anyone gains in ufo sightings it’s the military? Investment into everything , add an air of mystery to make it seem plausible and away you go. ‘Ah yes minister we can’t explain it.. nope we don’t have anything capable of doing that.. the Russians? Don’t think so but they might. China possibly.. We need more money please.. thanks...’
Almost every theory is plausible on this subject or could be correct.

Ok, but who’s piloting these military aircraft because apparantly humans can’t take the G.
Also If these things can stay in the air without refuelling, why isn’t the military producing them by the hundred as it gives us an advantage over our foes?

 

[lifes2short]

I'm a non believer, I think it's top secret stuff with military/organisation, if mere companies and lone inventors can create the jet packs, hover boards (see the iron man thread) imagine what the military have been secretly working on, imagine seeing the fella in below video at night in a remote location from a distance, your mind would run wild

 

[lifes2short]

 

[Wattie]

Impressive I agree, but it still doesn’t explain these craft.....drones?
pilots seem to rule them out......the G is too much for us so who is flying them?

 

[daverichardson]

I don't know what these creditable sightings are but I am not sold on the idea that they are Extra Terrestrial at all.
I am sold on the idea there is life out there though, just not good enough to use these space ships
See the Drake Equation.
I think there was a BBC4 documentary some time ago on this equation
If I had to state an uninformed opinion I would go for natural causes that we do not understand

 

[sionie1]

Ok, but who’s piloting these military aircraft because apparantly humans can’t take the G.
Also If these things can stay in the air without refuelling, why isn’t the military producing them by the hundred as it gives us an advantage over our foes?

Aircraft don’t require pilots - modern drones in theatre are operated from thousands of miles away- no human pilot to succumb to g force. How do you know they aren’t being refuelled? No one has seen them continually for an extended period of time and if they have why aren’t there better quality pictures? - I seem to recall a famous mission involving a Vulcan bomber that flew a huge distance and never landed, it was however refuelled. Just because we don’t know how doesn’t mean it’s not being done.
Anyway this is like a Brexit thread, arguments on both sides that have answers and questions that either side can keep going on about..

 

[Felonious Crud]

Wattie, which one of these guys is you?

 

[D Walker]

Aircraft don’t require pilots - modern drones in theatre are operated from thousands of miles away- no human pilot to succumb to g force. How do you know they aren’t being refuelled? No one has seen them continually for an extended period of time and if they have why aren’t there better quality pictures? - I seem to recall a famous mission involving a Vulcan bomber that flew a huge distance and never landed, it was however refuelled. Just because we don’t know how doesn’t mean it’s not being done.
Anyway this is like a Brexit thread, arguments on both sides that have answers and questions that either side can keep going on about..

WAsnt the huge Vulcan mission to bomb the runway in the Falklands was it, that missed. All because the RAF realised they were missing out on a war, so, rather than listen to people in theatre, convinced those that give orders on a ridiculously expensive mission, that failed, not once but twice, and you think only politicians feather there own nests.......

 

[Wattie]

Wattie, which one of these guys is you?

Unfortunately Fc I'm not able to view this as the "content isn't available in this country".

Australia protects its population from subversive material which is why we dont get the BBC here....just Sky.

Therefore, I can only summise the content therefore and will opt for the devastaingly handsome one.

 

[bigbob]

WAsnt the huge Vulcan mission to bomb the runway in the Falklands was it, that missed. All because the RAF realised they were missing out on a war, so, rather than listen to people in theatre, convinced those that give orders on a ridiculously expensive mission, that failed, not once but twice, and you think only politicians feather there own nests.......

The subsequent aerial photos of Vulcan 607’s work suggest otherwise.

 

[D Walker]

The subsequent aerial photos of Vulcan 607’s work suggest otherwise.

The raids did minimal damage to the runway and damage to radars was quickly repaired. A single crater was produced on the runway, rendering it impossible for the airfield to be used by fast jets. Argentine ground crew repaired the runway within twenty-four hours, to a level of quality suitable for C-130 Hercules transports. The British were aware that the runway remained in use. Dismissed in some quarters as post-war propaganda, Argentine sources originally claimed that the Vulcan raids influenced Argentina to withdraw some of their Dassault Mirage III fighter aircraft from the Southern Argentina Defence Zone to the Buenos Aires Defence Zone. This dissuasive effect was watered down when British officials made clear that there would be no strikes on air bases in Argentina. It has been suggested that the Black Buck raids were pressed home by the Royal Air Force because the British armed forces had been cut in the late seventies and the RAF may have desired a greater role in the conflict to prevent further cuts.

 

[bigbob]

The raids did minimal damage to the runway and damage to radars was quickly repaired. A single crater was produced on the runway, rendering it impossible for the airfield to be used by fast jets. Argentine ground crew repaired the runway within twenty-four hours, to a level of quality suitable for C-130 Hercules transports. The British were aware that the runway remained in use. Dismissed in some quarters as post-war propaganda, Argentine sources originally claimed that the Vulcan raids influenced Argentina to withdraw some of their Dassault Mirage III fighter aircraft from the Southern Argentina Defence Zone to the Buenos Aires Defence Zone. This dissuasive effect was watered down when British officials made clear that there would be no strikes on air bases in Argentina. It has been suggested that the Black Buck raids were pressed home by the Royal Air Force because the British armed forces had been cut in the late seventies and the RAF may have desired a greater role in the conflict to prevent further cuts.

Understand your points and recall that the Vulcans had already been given notice of withdrawal before the conflict. Surely though the inability to land the Mirages was key and was enough in itself? I appreciate your knowledge and the issue of all three services wanting to be in on the act - I was on a course with some Marines from 40 or 42 Commando (can't recall which) in summer '82 and they were mighty hacked off to be still in the UK.

 

[MarkMas]

WAsnt the huge Vulcan mission to bomb the runway in the Falklands was it, that missed. All because the RAF realised they were missing out on a war, so, rather than listen to people in theatre, convinced those that give orders on a ridiculously expensive mission, that failed, not once but twice, and you think only politicians feather there own nests.......

If your starting position is that everyone is always behaving in a cynically corrupt and self-serving way, then obviously the Vulcan mission was about big-wigs in the RAF not listening to the people in theatre and wasting a fortune on absurd self-promotion.

But if you don't have that starting assumption, you are more likely to believe that both the politicians and the military were frustrated that it was going to take nearly a month to get the task force down to the Falklands, and during that period they were debating ways to get stuck in sooner, especially as there was almost NOBODY 'in theatre' at the time. Meanwhile, on the way down, the task force commanders were significantly worried that the Port Stanley runway would be a big asset for the Argentine forces. By mid-April someone finally thought of sending long-range bombers, and after the RAF initially saying, 'Are you kidding?' they went for it, although it took 3-4 weeks to put a plan together and get enough Vulcans and Victors somewhat airworthy. In the end, the raid kinda worked, possibly with more propaganda and psychology value than practical.

 

[GeoffCapes]

If your starting position is that everyone is always behaving in a cynically corrupt and self-serving way, then obviously the Vulcan mission was about big-wigs in the RAF not listening to the people in theatre and wasting a fortune on absurd self-promotion.

But if you don't have that starting assumption, you are more likely to believe that both the politicians and the military were frustrated that it was going to take nearly a month to get the task force down to the Falklands, and during that period they were debating ways to get stuck in sooner, especially as there was almost NOBODY 'in theatre' at the time. Meanwhile, on the way down, the task force commanders were significantly worried that the Port Stanley runway would be a big asset for the Argentine forces. By mid-April someone finally thought of sending long-range bombers, and after the RAF initially saying, 'Are you kidding?' they went for it, although it took 3-4 weeks to put a plan together and get enough Vulcans and Victors somewhat airworthy. In the end, the raid kinda worked, possibly with more propaganda and psychology value than practical.

The Vulcan raid was a bit like the Doolittle raid on Japan in 1942, it wasn't about the damage, it was to demonstrate the ability to hit targets when the energy thought they were safe.

Having spoken to someone who was part of the ground crew for the Vulcans on the raid, they all believed that if one bomb hit the target then the mission was a success. Regardless of the financial cost.
The propeganda we see to the rest.

As was mentioned, the bombing left one crater, but that meant that fast jets couldn't use the runway, but transport planes could.
I would can that a proper result.

Imagine how much more damage would have been done in San Carlos bay if the Argentine jets could have taken off from Stanley airfield?

 

[flat-12]

I had an experience similar to Wanderer's. Way back when I was just a kid, I was out in the back yard with the neighbor kid - Lee. It was a nice summer day and we were just talking. I noticed that Lee kept looking over my right shoulder, towards the tree tops, but I kept flapping my gums. Finally I just stopped talking, and turned around to see what he kept looking at. To my utter astonishment....I saw a dark gray/gold colored disk hovering just above the tree tops....I turned back around to Lee and said...."Do you see that...!!!" To which he replied..."yeah...I've been watching it"......I turned back around to look at it again and it was gone! I asked Lee...."why didn't you say something?" To which he replied...."I don't know....I was just staring at it". To this day, I'm not sure what I saw. Sometimes I think maybe I dreamed it. But a few years later while looking through books in the local library about UFO's, there was a picture that looked almost exactly like the object I saw.

Now that I'm an old man, I don't really believe we have visitors from outer space. The distances are just too far for the trip to be practical, with little or no return for the effort.

 

[Wattie]

So you’ve seen the metallic variety. Wish I had.
Can you remember If there was any noise or how big it was......
Interesting that quite a few on here (dunno the size of forum membership) have experience of “something” unexplainable.

 

[D Walker]

The Vulcan raid was a bit like the Doolittle raid on Japan in 1942, it wasn't about the damage, it was to demonstrate the ability to hit targets when the energy thought they were safe.

Having spoken to someone who was part of the ground crew for the Vulcans on the raid, they all believed that if one bomb hit the target then the mission was a success. Regardless of the financial cost.
The propeganda we see to the rest.

As was mentioned, the bombing left one crater, but that meant that fast jets couldn't use the runway, but transport planes could.
I would can that a proper result.

Imagine how much more damage would have been done in San Carlos bay if the Argentine jets could have taken off from Stanley airfield?

Read this, great book.

Sea Harrier Over the Falklands

Sharkey Ward commanded 801 Naval Air Squadron, "HMS Invincible", during the Falkland War of April to June 1982, and was senior Sea Harrier adviser to the command on the tactics, direction and progress of the air war. He flew over 60 war missions, achieved three air-to air kills, and took part in...

books.google.gr

Sea Harrier over the Falklands