Fifth Gear

[safrane]

I agree that the brand need to make money to keep going....but does that really mean it just becomes a brand like Ford/Vauxhall/VW...If the brand just becomes the same as everyone else's car then the question is what's the point.

 

[BJL]

Can't argue with that Phil but we are talking about Maserati here, a marque I grew up to love after being hauled all over Europe by my parents in 53, 54, 55 and 56 watching them bash around every circuit in France and Italy making a great stand for design, performance and endeavour.

Surely maser knew this diesel couldn't cut it as is so why didn't they make it in a way that made the world stand back and say 'crickey is that a diesel, it goes like stink..what a car...I want one.
4500 red line, my Range Rover has that. They have Iso Francinni on the doorstep and I had 2 of their diesels in Fresh &Clean, a class one power boat in 1986. That revved to 6500 then.

On the other point of losses....if you read the balance sheet they have written off in last years accounts all the QP VI development cost along with much of the Ghibli. Financial politics being important states that when this year they post 300 m profit it will be down to the new direction thereby justifying Fiats decision to make Maserati the new popular choice.

I love maserati and would defend them to the hilt but why churn out mediocre cars.

 

[Contigo]

Unfortunately you need to dilute the brand to succeed. I don't understand the furore really, I mean look at Porsche they even started selling Panamera's with Diesel engines (Audi powerplant) and at first all the die hard were stunned. It's helped them sell well and over 65% of the Panamera's sold in the UK are diesels. The same applies for the Cayenne. Now I know Porsche are not in the same "last chance saloon" as Maserati but you get the point that sometimes you have to diversify. Porsche went the way of SUV's to save their bacon so Maserati seem to think the way to save theirs is to go Diesel. The only real gripe I have is that they have taken the name "Ghibli" which when you look back is sacrilege to the original model which outsold the Miura in its day. A true classic car and this one won't be. It should have had it's own new name or model number.

It's sadly not the best thought out plan and with the emissions higher and performance worse than the German rivals it will mean as a company car choice it doesn't make any sense.

 

[BJL]

I know what you are saying makes sense and I hope it works out how we all want. Fingures crossed for maser and roll on the new Alfieri and Gransport.

 

[Contigo]

I know what you mean too Barrie and it really should have more Wow factor. Everytime I get in the 3200 start her up and drive off I just get that great feeling just like I'm sure you do in your QP and Cali. The Ghibli diesel I'm sure would not give that same buzz! Let's hope it turns their fortunes around and then we get to see you go and order the first Alfieri in the UK!

Now that would be something to see!

 

[BJL]

I'll drink to that

 

[Elliott653]

Absolutely not! If it does we won't ever see the new Gransport, Alfieri and others hit the road. Whether you like it or not, and it's obvious you don't, the Ghibli diesel will bankroll the future in the same way the X-type diesel started the Jaguar resurgence that brought us the F-Type. If you are not going to support their attempts to save the company please don't bad mouth it.

Benny. Life's too short to get into an argument about a car.

However, it has come to a pretty pass when one has to support anything they produce just because it's a Maserati. Even if it has disappointed everyone. Even those desperate for it to be a success (and I count myself among that number). I have my view and I am just as entitled to voice it as you are yours.

 

[BennyD]

Agreed but, IMO, running it down does nothing to support the Marque. The Gransport, QP V, GTS etc that we all love are all 'great' cars but they are not saving the company, they are merely dragging out a lingering death. The management have decided that a whole new tack is required to raise money to expand the brand and this is it. The Ghibli has been created from a relatively tight budget and sure, it isn't perceived to be a world beater in its current form but, for a first attempt, it is a very credible effort. To express strong negative views does nothing to support what they are trying to achieve just because it doesn't conform to what you think they should be doing. Have you driven the new Ghibli yet? If not, how can you say it has disappointed everyone? It certainly didn't disappoint me when I drove it or, presumably, the dozens/hundreds of people who have bought them. I would respect your view a lot more if I knew you've driven one and are not basing it on somebody else's opinion.

 

[conaero]

Benny. Life's too short to get into an argument about a car.

However, it has come to a pretty pass when one has to support anything they produce just because it's a Maserati. Even if it has disappointed everyone. Even those desperate for it to be a success (and I count myself among that number). I have my view and I am just as entitled to voice it as you are yours.

Not wishing to add fuel to the flames, that pretty much sums up my thought although like Benny I support it.

I spent 2 days at casa Benny and we talked a lot about the new offerings and we both came to the conclusion that for the good of the brand, this forum and all thing Maserati we should get behind Maserati.

Believe it or not I dont have issue with the Ghibli, more so with the new QP.

Having spent time round them both, the QP is the model I have more concern with. It's quality sure, plus comes with the V8 but something has been lost in translation from the outgoing model.

Back to the Ghibli, it was always going to be tricky to launch this engine, but they have to start somewhere. Remember Harry says the petrol is a fantastic car the issues stem from a disiel which ain't bad, but I do recon that a twin turbo will be along and it will blow your socks off.

Maserati have a habit of getting clients into the brand them showing them something better....3200/4200/GranSport....GT 4.2/4.7 MC Shift/Strad, it's the way they work.

See this new car for what it is and view it as a work in progress.

 

[conaero]

Further more, Maserati are not in last chance saloon here, Alfa are, so if they were to go, then worry.

Unlike us, the Italians don't sell off the family silver for a fast buck, the government will support it to the hilt.

 

[Elliott653]

Agreed but, IMO, running it down does nothing to support the Marque. The Gransport, QP V, GTS etc that we all love are all 'great' cars but they are not saving the company, they are merely dragging out a lingering death. The management have decided that a whole new tack is required to raise money to expand the brand and this is it. The Ghibli has been created from a relatively tight budget and sure, it isn't perceived to be a world beater in its current form but, for a first attempt, it is a very credible effort. To express strong negative views does nothing to support what they are trying to achieve just because it doesn't conform to what you think they should be doing. Have you driven the new Ghibli yet? If not, how can you say it has disappointed everyone? It certainly didn't disappoint me when I drove it or, presumably, the dozens/hundreds of people who have bought them. I would respect your view a lot more if I knew you've driven one and are not basing it on somebody else's opinion.

No, I've not driven it. But, I've seen two. "Mundane" would describe the styling. It could have been a Hyundai. The exact opposite of any previous model from Maserati.

But, I've said enough. I'm bowing out. As I said, life's too short to argue about a car.

Oh, and don't get me started on that supertanker named the QP VI

 

[safrane]

I can see both sides of the coin here. Yes we should support Maserati in this venture. BUT only if it results in inprovements in the rest of the range. If they dumb down the the next GT in a similar way then they will be lost...and that is my genuine fear; that they will follow the money and to **** with the heritage.

 

[BJL]

Good thread with passionate debate from people who clearly love Maserati. Let's hope someone up there is listening.

 

[BennyD]

I can see both sides of the coin here. Yes we should support Maserati in this venture. BUT only if it results in inprovements in the rest of the range. If they dumb down the the next GT in a similar way then they will be lost...and that is my genuine fear; that they will follow the money and to **** with the heritage.

Tbh, I don't think the Alfieri is dumbing down the GT too much! Having spent an hour buttonholing Maserati Uk head of sales, I got the distinct impression that they are fully aware of the heritage. He told me in so many words that the Ghibli range is being used to generate cash for newer models which will come along when they have the funding. The Alfieri is a case in point and if that comes out with the right engine and at the right price, I reckon they will sell like hot cakes too.

 

[safrane]

Only time will tell Benny on both counts.

Evo states a V6 option in the Alfieri...Its also a halo model and, from what I have read, not the GT replacement...and I hope it does not become Maserati's 8C, with a very limited run.

Lets hope the bean counters don't find it a better option to ape BMW/Merc etc

 

[bigbob]

Not wishing to add fuel to the flames, that pretty much sums up my thought although like Benny I support it.

I spent 2 days at casa Benny and we talked a lot about the new offerings and we both came to the conclusion that for the good of the brand, this forum and all thing Maserati we should get behind Maserati.

Believe it or not I dont have issue with the Ghibli, more so with the new QP.

Having spent time round them both, the QP is the model I have more concern with. It's quality sure, plus comes with the V8 but something has been lost in translation from the outgoing model.

Back to the Ghibli, it was always going to be tricky to launch this engine, but they have to start somewhere. Remember Harry says the petrol is a fantastic car the issues stem from a disiel which ain't bad, but I do recon that a twin turbo will be along and it will blow your socks off.

Maserati have a habit of getting clients into the brand them showing them something better....3200/4200/GranSport....GT 4.2/4.7 MC Shift/Strad, it's the way they work.

See this new car for what it is and view it as a work in progress.

The issue I see is that Maserati have not replaced the QP as the new QP is too big and the Ghibli is too small. They have abandoned the previous space they filled. Very strange.

 

[BJL]

Good point

 

[BennyD]

The issue I see is that Maserati have not replaced the QP as the new QP is too big and the Ghibli is too small. They have abandoned the previous space they filled. Very strange.

Considering the number of 'old' QPs they sold perhaps it isn't a space that needed filling. As i see it, the Ghibli is aimed at the 5 series buyer and the 'new' QP is aimed at the far eastern buyer.

 

[bigbob]

I think you are correct but they could have brought out a SWB and LWB QP. My comments come from having finally sat in a Ghibli. I liked the front seat environment but was disappointed with the rear seat leg room and ease of entry.

Personally I'm not into saloons - a 4WD Ghibli wagon with a bit more rear seat space could be good!

 

[BennyD]

I've had a 3 series for 5 years and the number of times I have carried two adults in the rear seats can probably be counted on two hands. For the majority of time, I would suggest, the back of a 4 seat saloon is empty, or full of kids, so all you are doing is lugging around extra space surrounded by tin. I reckon a Ghibli is a little on the large side for what I need as it is nearer to a 5 series than a 3. The QP is aimed at a market where the further the passenger sits from the driver the greater the status of the passenger. Bollox I know, but that's what they are trying to cater for.