I'd give up now

[Rwc13]

I'm the same. I have bought Ghiblis from 2 different dealers and the service at both was excellent. I have also used the new HR Owen dealership in Manchester recently and their service was also excellent. Feels like poor service from a couple of dealers may have tainted your view somewhat.

And given that you haven't even driven the cars, do you really feel qualified to declare that Maserati has missed the boat and that the cars are just a badge and not that special? On what basis?

Also I thought Maserati had recently announced a very good set of growth numbers for the new cars, particularly the Ghibli.

And Jaguar has entered these markets somewhat belatedly and seems to have done pretty well.


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[Andyk]

OK, let's deal with a couple of factual points first.

I have never said I hate any cars of the current Maserati range, and neither have I ever said the current range offers bad cars, on the contrary, in terms of style and build quality I've been very complimentary about most of them. It's not the cars' competence I'm questioning, but their raison d'ȇtre.

A long time ago on another thread I did say, with reference to the diesels, that if I wanted a BMW I'd buy a BMW. The reality though is that diesel days may soon be on the decline anyway, and for my money a diesel doesn't easily fit the original Maserati profile no matter how good it is.

No Maf I've not driven any of the current range, but have not been encouraged to do so either. I first saw the pre-launch Ghibli and QP at Goodwood, left my details, and never heard another thing. Some time ago I toyed with the idea of running a business Ghibli and paid Dick Lovett's a visit. The receptionist said she'd see if she could find someone to talk to me about it, and eventually I was approached by a sales guy who'd probably sized me up by the X-Type outside and decided I wasn't worth the effort. A request for a brochure was met with ‘â€I'm not sure that we have anyâ€. I pressed and he eventually found one, telling me that I should get in touch if interested! I didn't expect a red carpet, or a fanfare of trumpets, but the point is that he didn't know my status or potential as a customer, though I did tell him that I had a 4200 (perhaps that was the killer).

Just a few yards away is DL's Porsche showroom, and the experience when I visited that with my grandson a little later was a revelation. Without being pushy, a couple of sales folk asked if I was interested in any particular model, and I explained that I was only browsing. “No problem sir, if a car takes your fancy just let us know and we'll line it up for you if you'd like a test driveâ€. I declined the offer, but as we were leaving my grandson was given a goodie bag and posters and it was a case of “Just let us know if you change your mind sir, we'll be pleased to helpâ€. Same company, same site, totally different attitude.

Now for reasons I won't bore you with I probably know more about the Lovett group than most on here; I've watched them grow from a tiny outfit in the sixties to the multi-franchise operation they have now, and that growth didn't happen by accident. But judging by my experience why would anyone bother with Maserati when the competition (including DL's own BMW franchise) will welcome buyers with open arms, and Grange Jaguar of Swindon are all over me like a rash if I visit their showroom. Make no mistake, Jaguar do have a very impressive line-up, though I'm not keen on their labour rates at £125/hr +VAT.

Maserati has a cracking pedigree and could so easily capitalise on their heritage to promote and make the Alfieri and other sports cars, but they've chosen to go up against established competitors in a very tough market, presumably because soulless accountants dictated a strategy that's not exactly sparkled.

A few months ago an American automotive analyst said "Maserati has a name that's very niche, and it sells in a market segment that's not deep anyway. That gets you an initial boost, and then after that the cliff is really steep." Since then production has been cut…..

Being an old git I've watched Maserati for a few decades, and the most impressive event was the introduction of the 3200gt which revived the company's fortunes, ultimately leading to the well-received QPV, GT, and GC. Then some clown thought ‘let's go head to head with established players in the volume market', oh and ‘forget the Alfieri for now as we've got SUV's to think about'. If you're going to do that you might at least ensure you have a robust sales network and deliver the product and service you promise in the volumes you aim for.

I'd love to see the marque truly flourish, I really would, but some time ago I said that Maserati doesn't seem to know what it wants to be and I see nothing to change that view.

Think about this Maf: Let's say that you can only keep one of your Maseratis, will it be the Ghibli?

PH

I take my XE to Grange in Swindon and like you the experience has been excellent. They certainly have got there act together.

 

[Rwc13]

Posted elsewhere on here already I think
http://www.autonewspress.com/another-month-of-successful-sales-for-maserati/

 

[Andyk]

Good to see but isn't that the 4x4 effect rather than the other two........ Italy has really taken the new range to heart especially the diesel. When I was at the factory they said that they believe Italy would be their biggest European market which they had not seen for many years.

 

[midlifecrisis]

I sympathise with Phil, driving an hour to see a car that you've pre-arranged to view only to be told that it's not available is quite frankly unacceptable from any dealer. In Phils original message I get his point, have Maserati missed the bulk of the SUV and diesel market. Should they have come out with the Kubang ten years ago? Regardless of its prowess it would have sold in large numbers taking some of the market from porsche and range rover. As for diesel cars I fear that they are on the wane as environmental legislation bites.
I've not driven either car but I'd like to and no doubt they are good cars but have Maserati missed boom in both markets? Time will tell.

 

[Rwc13]

Good to see but isn't that the 4x4 effect rather than the other two........ Italy has really taken the new range to heart especially the diesel. When I was at the factory they said that they believe Italy would be their biggest European market which they had not seen for many years.

Not if you read beyond the first sentence. The Levante will have had little effect on registrations since Jan 2016 and, I quote "The performance of the Maserati saloons – Quattroporte and Ghibli – was particularly striking in the United Kingdom, with a 52% increase in sales compared to the same month of 2015; sales of the Maserati SUV are scheduled to start in this market in the last quarter."


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[philw696]

I would hate for any of us to fall out on this debate but its obvious Maserati is in a bit of a mess and I know having worked for them especially with people who have no real passion for what Maserati is at the moment and once was.
Im quite happy becoming an old fart really and as I do not do lots of miles travelling for business I can indulge myself in other ways.
I will always have a Maserati and thats the important part.

 

[drewf]

I realise I'll be shot down for this, but the sales, revenue and EBIT are not scintillating.



From the official FCA shareholder/market release, the sales aren't a rip-roaring success - it's small actual numbers, so discussing percentage increases isn't really relevant to describe the trend. The reality is that sales have been pretty flat in Europe for the last three years. The last month alone is an astonishing anomaly, and one which I expect will prove to have an underlying explanation. I'm not jumping to the conclusion that based on that whopping increase alone, Maserati are healthy and saved.

None of the above has anything to do with what I think of the cars themselves, or the dealers. I'd love Maserati to produce a heart-stopping, jaw-dropping car. Neither the Ghibli nor the QP are that car, no matter how good they might be.

 

[bigbob]

This is complex. Maserati is producing cars in volumes far in excess of what it has done previously but the problem is that the enthusiasts are not happy as it is not far enough down this journey to release cash to invest in new coupes and cabriolets. I am sure that this will come in time.

The big saloons are doing fine when you consider that they are not targeting the 4 cylinder market where most of the sales are. A Maserati will always be a rare car to see even on these increase volumes. Forums often tend to have older views and resist change - I see it elsewhere too with other brands - but Maserati is sorting itself out. There is confusion on a number of levels mind - being able to buy a Ghibli diesel in the same showroom that sells a four/five times more expensive Ferrari is just daft and the positioning of Maserati viz a viz Alfa is not clear with them not sharing technology/components to the extent that you would expect.

When I lived in the south I used both Meridien and Maranello and had good and bad experiences of both. However, that was one/two decades ago and so needs to be parked as it has no relevance to where we are now. I am not a frequent owner of saloons but am glad that the Maserati pair exist. I am also looking forward to the Levante outselling the Ghibli as it will give Maserati the option to invest elsewhere.

Personally I am interested in what comes off the line at Modena next and I am sure that when that occurs all the people who criticise the current range of cars will quietly be very happy that they exist. Lets all play nice and offer comments that are relevant, up to date and well informed.

 

[MrMickS]

From the official FCA shareholder/market release, the sales aren't a rip-roaring success - it's small actual numbers, so discussing percentage increases isn't really relevant to describe the trend. The reality is that sales have been pretty flat in Europe for the last three years. The last month alone is an astonishing anomaly, and one which I expect will prove to have an underlying explanation. I'm not jumping to the conclusion that based on that whopping increase alone, Maserati are healthy and saved..

The figures are ok, but not fantastic for the EU. However they are much better than the 'falling of the cliff' rumours that were floating around earlier this year.

The big saloons are doing fine when you consider that they are not targeting the 4 cylinder market where most of the sales are. A Maserati will always be a rare car to see even on these increase volumes. Forums often tend to have older views and resist change - I see it elsewhere too with other brands - but Maserati is sorting itself out. There is confusion on a number of levels mind - being able to buy a Ghibli diesel in the same showroom that sells a four/five times more expensive Ferrari is just daft and the positioning of Maserati viz a viz Alfa is not clear with them not sharing technology/components to the extent that you would expect.

This could explain why the sales, at least in the UK, aren't better than they are. I've been looking at videos on YouTube about the Levante and the QP and Ghibli facelifts. Most of the ones I've seen are from the US or NL. In each case its a Maserati/Alfa Romeo dealership of which there are more and they are more approachable. I must admit, even though I had the money, going into a dealership with Ferrari, Maserati, and Aston Martin, was a little intimidating.

There are 21 Maserati dealerships in the UK. That's all. In order to sell many more there need to be more dealerships. The ideal would be to co-locate with Alfa Romeo, but then that's going to cause other issues because the Alfa dealers now seem to have two of Fiat, Abarth, or Jeep, with a rule being that they can only have the three. Which Alfa dealership is going to give up Fiat or Jeep to have Maserati? The dealer network is growing and hopefully that, along with increased advertising, Ghiblis coming off lease and being available second hand, and the Levante will push sales up. Its going to take time and patience though.

 

[Contigo]

How are those figures not conclusive proof that since 2013 there has been on average a 5X increase in the number of cars sold on a monthly basis with some months reaching over 7 times the lowest figures from 2012/13!

I'd like to see the US figures too for the same period.

I thought the idea was bring out the Ghibli, QP and Levante in order to meet sales targets and also allow the development of the Alfieri? Surely they are on the right track?

 

[MrMickS]

How are those figures not conclusive proof that since 2013 there has been on average a 5X increase in the number of cars sold on a monthly basis with some months reaching over 7 times the lowest figures from 2012/13!

I'd like to see the US figures too for the same period.

I thought the idea was bring out the Ghibli, QP and Levante in order to meet sales targets and also allow the development of the Alfieri? Surely they are on the right track?

US figures in the attached screenshot

 

[drewf]

How are those figures not conclusive proof that since 2013 there has been on average a 5X increase in the number of cars sold on a monthly basis with some months reaching over 7 times the lowest figures from 2012/13!

I'd like to see the US figures too for the same period.

I thought the idea was bring out the Ghibli, QP and Levante in order to meet sales targets and also allow the development of the Alfieri? Surely they are on the right track?

There's no argument that volume has increased dramatically at Maserati since the introduction of the Ghibli. That was its intention, and to a small degree it has worked. What hasn't worked is the 'on the right track' part - Maserati are a very long way from hitting the original sales targets, and even more sadly a very long way from hitting 50% of the lower revised sales targets. Don't forget, the margin in a Ghibli is nothing like the margin per unit in a Stradale or even the new QP, European sales figures for which are best not mentioned in polite company.

If they had been close to those targets, then there would be a chance of seeing development of the Alfieri and similar. The revenues haven't happened, the business plan is miles off course, and they are making buttons. The ROI isn't there at the moment - bottom line is that unless the Levante is a strong earner AND it drags Ghibli sales with it, then the outlook is very bleak indeed.

 

[P R]

I thought they weren't far off target, which was 75000 vehicles by 2020 was it? Once the Levante comes on stream in all markets wont they be up past 50k?

FWIW I wouldn't have a Maserati now if it wasn't for the Ghibli.

 

[drewf]

I thought they weren't far off target, which was 75000 vehicles by 2020 was it? Once the Levante comes on stream in all markets wont they be up past 50k?

Sadly not. The target figure was 75000 per year by 2018, not as a running total from the launch date. Currently running at around 35k units globally, well down on the 50k units projected for last year. I hope Levante exceeds the hoped for figures, as some of those sales will be taking buyers away from Ghiblis - they won't all be new customers who wouldn't have bought a Maser before the SUV appeared.

 

[Contigo]

Maybe the brand logo is worth more alone?

 

[keith]

I can remember the 'older' Jaguar 'enthusiast' complaining how the company had lost the plot when they launched the XF and new shape XJ some 7-8 years ago..
According to these customers Jaguar were heading in the wrong direction, and had thrown away all the traditional looks that made a Jaguar special. Thankfully the company were rather more interested in all the new conquest customers they were making, and now continue to make with the smaller XE and the very well received F-Pace SUV.
Whilst it would of course be wrong to say Maserati has enjoyed the same success, the similarities are certainly there.
By the way for those who think a diesel doesn't work in a Maserati, I may be wrong, but I am sure I read 90% of Ghibli and I would imagine the majority of QP's are diesel.

 

[Phil H]

And given that you haven't even driven the cars, do you really feel qualified to declare that Maserati has missed the boat and that the cars are just a badge and not that special? On what basis?

Well, you’re probably right.

Unless of course you count the fact that, short of driving them, I've been up close and personal with the Ghibli, QP, and Levante.
OR you count the fact that Maserati's own figures are not exactly encouraging.
OR you look at the competition's sales figures for similar periods (Jaguar will give you a good benchmark).
OR you consider that in the last 10 years I've owned a 3200, 4200, and QPV, so I'm not ignorant of the marque or its potential.
And that’s before we get to my experience of Maserati’s sales force.

Like it or not you don't need to be a genius to see that the Maserati marketers seem a confused lot:
Roll out the Alfieri, albeit too late to take advantage of the company's centenary, take deposits, then quietly forget it.
Resurrect the idea, but with no clear or published strategy.
Suggest a revised line-up but who knows what or when? Will it be in 2018 or 2081?
Care to discuss Maserati's Classiche programme? There isn't one!
And so it goes.

No doubt I am now regarded as a dedicated Maserati heretic, but nothing could be further from the truth. What bl00dy well grieves me is the wasted opportunities to invigorate and promote the brand, and no amount of talking up the marque can recover that.

Keith
I don't disagree with you. In this day and age you adapt to your market whatever it may be or die, and if Ghiblis become the bread and butter that's fine. But why on earth should I have to persuade sales folk that I might be interested in their products? Isn't it supposed to be the other way round? The media says Jaguar has 'scored a bullseye' with the F-Pace; everyone knows about it and I was recently offered an immediate test drive having shown only passing interest. The Levante may also have scored a bullseye, but who'd know?

PH

 

[SPX]

Looking at this as an outsider, I'm the target market for the likes of the Ghibli but circa £60k for a 6cyl diesel saloon is crazy money especially when you look at the price of its competitors; the XF-S V6 diesel has more power and is over £10k less so Maserati are relying very heavily on the name to make up that difference.

And, just for the record, I don't care what car people spend their money on; Ghibli diesels, MC Stradales, Ssangyong Rodius, it's your money, but surely the more cars Maserati sells, the better?

 

[MrMickS]

Looking at this as an outsider, I'm the target market for the likes of the Ghibli but circa £60k for a 6cyl diesel saloon is crazy money especially when you look at the price of its competitors; the XF-S V6 diesel has more power and is over £10k less so Maserati are relying very heavily on the name to make up that difference.

And, just for the record, I don't care what car people spend their money on; Ghibli diesels, MC Stradales, Ssangyong Rodius, it's your money, but surely the more cars Maserati sells, the better?

£60k for a Ghibli diesel? Under £50k otr.


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