Manual Gearbox issue...

tom27

New Member
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66
Manual Gearbox issue...and other

Hi,

After buying my car, i found a strange sound when clutch are running ( sound disappear with clutch pedal engaged but still when neutral gear and pedal disengaged).
I've make service on gearbox , oil refurb with SAE 75W-90 mobil + mecacyl red.
Sound is going less after.:whistle:

But now sound is going louder and louder, like a rattle. And now car vibrate more and more....
Have tired by bad look in street !:conf2:


Did anyone have an idee ? this is the gearbox or what ??? :hang:
 
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CraigWaterman11

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Thrust (throw-out) bearing.....you are at least exhibiting the symptoms of one, especially the sound going away when engaging the clutch.
 

tom27

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004_041.gif

004_042.gif


What part ?
Complet clutch was replace last 15000 miles...
 

CraigWaterman11

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Did you replace the throw-out bearing when you replaced the clutch assembly, a lot of people think they are saving money when they don't do this but in actuality if you have to split the transmission again you're not. It's number 3 above in the very top diagram, also did you replace the pilot bearing? It's the bearing that goes into the crankshaft of the motor and balances the input shaft of the transmission.
 
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tom27

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66
i just get the bill (refurb only last 4k miles !!!!not 15k !), replaced item are :
-CLUTCH DISK WITH PRE-DAMPER
-CLUTCH MECHANISM
-CLUTCH PRESSURE PLATE BEARING

Old owner said to me, he changed all this because pressure plate was broken.
My mecanical say to me is the gearbox... ( at sound)
 
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CraigWaterman11

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The great thing in your situation is it's not the "CC" gear box. You don't need the SD2/3 or Leo system for any of the repairs. It's possible it's the gear box but the sound would be constant in my experience if it was. Your saying the sound goes away when driving down the street with the clutch engaged. If it was the gear box because the torque shaft is still turning all the rest of the gears in the transmission while coasting down the street in neutral it would still be making that sound I would presume. Of course it's hard to diagnose over the computer and I am in the U.S. and cannot drive over to help. But what you are explaining to me are classic symptoms of throw-out bearing failure.
 

CraigWaterman11

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So you are saying the guy replaced #3 above in the diagram? Was it through a trusted source when he replaced them? Also you didn't mention pilot bearing above which would make the transmission input shaft spin out of round if the bearing dislodged or shredded. Here's the thing, the car has to be taken apart regardless, I would like to help you more but the truth of the matter is if it's the throw-out bearing, pilot bearing or the gear box itself the motor and transmission still has to be taken apart to tell this. When the mechanic takes it apart go in and ask to see the throw-bearing, and/or the pilot bearing. Ask the mechanic to show you why he diagnosed it the right way. It will all make sense when he takes it apart. If you were here, I would tell you to come over and we'd take it apart, but as of yet Maseratis and the Prancing horses aren't Uni-corns (they don't fly)!:cent:
 
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CraigWaterman11

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Wait a minute.....I think I just realized you stated "refurb", did you install a new clutch, PP, and throw-out bearing or refurb parts?
 

tom27

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Hi ! Thx for answer me !

Why you don't drive to help me ? Just take a submarine, i'm in France ^^

All parts are replaced by new parts. ( just my very bad vocabulary :alan4:).
For me it's the gearbox because sound increasing with RPM, and when clutch pedal is pressed, no sound in neutral.
But when car is moving , if press clutch pedal to disengage gear , sound is still present but decrease ( and almost stops in 10-20s).
 

alfatwo

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5,517
Like Craig says you'll have to remove the gearbox to check the clutch assembly,if everthing checks out fine it could well be the gearbox
Those Getrag gearboxes are usually bulletproof though

Dave
 

tom27

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on techn.manual, i saw a big circlip pin on clutch must be removed.
A simple circlip tool can do it ?
 

CraigWaterman11

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Tom I have to be honest, I have no idea how to try and communicate what you'd need to do. For starters that torque tube (drive shaft) is extremely heavy and is a two person job unless you know what you're doing. Additionally for me to attempt to diy (do-it-yourself) through the forum to split your motor from your transmission is going to be almost impossible based on the language barrier alone. It's not that it's impossible per-se it's that I might explain to you something I feel like you'd understand the same way as I would, only to find out you understood it differently and broke something. It would make me feel worse than if you just took it to a shop have them split it open because they have to do so anyway, and then tell us what you see. Is there anyone on the forum you know close by? Someone who might know someone who has an Independent shop that can be honest about what needs to be done. Believe me, if I felt I could fly over and help I would, that's just me. It might only cost $1500 for a plane ticket but my Snap-on tool box out-weighs me, and is very heavy to bring!!
 
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ledlights

Junior Member
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189
Tom,

The gearbox was also used in the BMW M5 at the time, so any local garage which deals with these could help.... The gearbox is mounted directly onto the engine and is very heavy (not a transaxle like the 4200), so you'd need a transmission jack at the very least. The main problem is that you'll need to drop the exhausts and unfortunately these are mounted onto the turbos. The bolts regularly seize and need to be machined off the turbo outlet by an engineering shop. Unless you're confident, best find a competent garage to help with this. It's not impossible to DIY but quite a tough job.

Hope this helps,

Steve
 

CraigWaterman11

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Tom,

The gearbox was also used in the BMW M5 at the time, so any local garage which deals with these could help.... The gearbox is mounted directly onto the engine and is very heavy (not a transaxle like the 4200), so you'd need a transmission jack at the very least. The main problem is that you'll need to drop the exhausts and unfortunately these are mounted onto the turbos. The bolts regularly seize and need to be machined off the turbo outlet by an engineering shop. Unless you're confident, best find a competent garage to help with this. It's not impossible to DIY but quite a tough job.

Hope this helps,

Steve

I agree Steve, I don't know how much of that is going to translate into French for him. I used torque shaft and drive shaft interchangeably (so he could understand what I was saying at least in reference) though they are two very different things to transfer power/torque to the rear of the car, most trans-axle gear boxes use a torque tube to transfer the power not unlike some newer Vettes or Corvettes, most normal automatic/standard transmissions use a drive shaft. But the way they distribute the power to the rear of the vehicle are entirely different. If I remember correctly the 3200 is a two part drive shaft with a joiner in the middle not unlike most box trucks on the street. I don't see the exhaust being a problem personally. I wouldn't remove it at all from the turbos, I would cut it on both sides behind the turbos and use a joiner when I was finished. That way you wouldn't have to worry about this issue again. Any time you wanted the exhaust out of the way you could un-clamp it. The transmission, well you don't necessarily need a transmission jack. If you don't have ratchet straps for the transmission jack to go around it and try using a transmission jack with chains it will be on the ground anyway. You can use a standard jack with a block and ratchet straps. It's harder but it will work. You don't have the tilts which is a nice commodity when you re-stab the transmission but again it will work. But the real issue I think I saw wasn't if you could say it on the forum I think I was wondering how much of what you and I just stated is actually translated into French for him.

Here's an example of what I mean......I took the above paragraph to google translate. I translated it into French, then I took what Google translate stated was the equivalent in English and flipped it back into English from French..... this is what I got:

"I agree Steve , I do not know how that will translate into French for him. I tried to use the torsion shaft and exchangeable drive shaft ( so he could understand what I was saying at least in the reference ), although they are two very different things to transfer power the rear of the car, most boxes trans - axle gear use a torque tube transfer power is reminiscent of some newer Vettes or Corvettes , automatic transmissions / standard more normal use of a drive shaft . But how distribute the power to the rear of the vehicle are completely different. If I remember correctly the 3200 is a training in two parts with a carpenter tree in the middle is reminiscent of most vans in the street. I do not see the exhaust is a problem personally. I would not remove all of the turbos , I would cut both sides behind the turbo and use a carpenter when I was finished . This way you do not have to worry about this issue again. Whenever you have always wanted to escape how you can uncheck tighten. Transmission, so you do not necessarily need a transmission jack. If you do not have ratchet straps for transmission made ​​to go around and try to use a transmission jack with chains , it will be on the ground anyway. You can use a standard jack with a block and ratchet straps . It is more difficult, but it will work. You do not have the inclination which is a nice good when you re-coup the transmission but again it will work. But the real question I think I saw was not so we can say that the forum to run it, I think I was wondering how what you just said and I actually translated into French for him"

I have a few Spanish and Brazilian friends. I also rub shoulders with a few Greeks, French, and a few other people from other countries when I visit my wife at her lab in Harvard. I suppose my point was, and this is especially when you use words with ambiguous meaning it won't translate for the guy. Honestly, in my humble opinion the job he is asking to do is quite easy. It's translating it to him to do it that's the hard part, at least that's my experience with translation. But hey, photographs and arrows would work if someone has them for him. I have some pics of transfer cases, and transmissions I've split apart (like below)
but it's not going to help him with that car in the moment.

20130225_163325.jpg
(sorry camera was tilted)

20130227_123804.jpg
(here's one with an internal slave cylinder not unlike the 3200/4200 I'm sure, I modified this vehicle to have an external slave)

20130228_110117.jpg
(like these photos)

20130301_150858.jpg


20130225_192117.jpg
( had to split the transfer case to change the input shaft from a 21 spline to a 23 spline input shaft)

I also weld and do frame repair like this:
IMAG0322.jpg
 

tom27

New Member
Messages
66
Ok i have to do remember your opignon on remove gearbox. language barrier is verry bad...
I go to the mecanical shop around my village, to check the sound and take a decision.

I will plan this operation and buy special tool : http://www.rodcraft.fr/verins-de-fosses/165-verin-de-fosse-300kg.html to remove shaft and gearbox.
It's maybe too dificult for me.
But in my head, full deposit of turbo can be realised in same time to check it, and replace exaust collector who had a broken section ( 2 cm) by inox collector.
The hight sifficult is just money and space on parking of my mecanical shop...
 
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CraigWaterman11

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(sigh) Tom very sorry we couldn't bridge the language gap for you. That transmission jack will only work if you have a lift or a pit to climb down into. That's what it resembles is a high-lift jack but though I translated it I don't know that will be what you need. I don't know if that is a transmission jack,....it should resemble this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunex-SUN7700B-700-Lb-Capacity-Heavy-Duty-Hi-Lift-Transmission-Jack-/390654743983?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af4d655af

Whatever you do don't use those stupid chains. You can get some ratchet straps for really cheap and tighten the transmission on there tight and it won't move or settle backwards or side-wards. If you don't have a pit or lift use something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/800-Lb-Low-Lift-Transmission-Jack-New-in-Box-Free-shipping-/300880056666?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item460dd9515a

Again don't use those chains
 

tom27

New Member
Messages
66
Yes i know wath is transmission jack.
In my garage i have a pit for work ;-).
Language gap is not a problem for me, i don't use a translator !
My english is poor i know, but i understand technical language :blushed:
 

tom27

New Member
Messages
66
Hi guys
I come back from my Mechanic, for him it's the gearbox, no other issue are possible.
Because CLUTCH PRESSURE PLATE is no in action when you d'ont press the clutch pedal.
And here, when you press the clutch pedal , no noise are hear.
The only parts who are in action when you don't press pedal clutch are : gearbox, clutch and transmission but not the pressure plate.

When i press clutch pedal no noise, at low speed when you past 3 for 2 gear, sound is breaking my head. but if i stay pressing on clutch (on neutral) , sound disappear immediately and appear when i push gear lever on 3.
For me it's clearly the gearbox.

A poor clutch pressure plate make sound when you press the pedal clutch. Not when you don't press :thumb1:
 
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