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- Thread starter mchristyuk
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mjheathcote
Centenary Club
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What a MASSIVE difference.
You don't just change a design so radically without reason.
Can you imagine a recall to change all 8 arms?
You don't just change a design so radically without reason.
Can you imagine a recall to change all 8 arms?
mchristyuk
Junior Member
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Speechless.
I'm not sure, I asked for a pair and they only had one on shelf - the older style, so I took that and another was supposed to come from Italy but when it arrived was the newer style so had to pay another 360 roughly to make up the difference on the original invoice.
So I 'believe' these are from Maserati, and the newer style has the trident on it so must be their own design/stock.
The picture doesn't do justice to how much thicker the metal around the bush is, I wish id measured it now really. I was astounded just how much better the newer style more expensive arm was, the appearance is of a lot higher quality and better finish all round. I'm no expert clearly, but my mechanic probably knows a bit to be fair and he certainly raises his eyebrows when we compared them.
So I 'believe' these are from Maserati, and the newer style has the trident on it so must be their own design/stock.
The picture doesn't do justice to how much thicker the metal around the bush is, I wish id measured it now really. I was astounded just how much better the newer style more expensive arm was, the appearance is of a lot higher quality and better finish all round. I'm no expert clearly, but my mechanic probably knows a bit to be fair and he certainly raises his eyebrows when we compared them.
Swedish Paul
Member
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I wonder if the part is the wrong one. Angles look slightly different.
highlander
Member
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Defoe looks like maser have improved the bone. Mark, do you want to let John at vosa know to have a look at this photo?
allandwf
Member
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I initially thought that, but the geometry and dimensions of the 3 main points look the same from the pictures. The other difference, other than being meatier around the bushes is the sweeping curve which is deeper. I assume this is to allow greater clearance for something, or to make removal of something easier. Not having the car anymore I can't just nip out and look.
davy83
Member
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There are quite a number of changes in that design. I note the length of the bearing housing is also a lot shorter as well as being thicker walled, suggesting that the shimming process and general clearance between the shims, sub frame, and body is not enough to allow stress free mounting without magic pixies (some thing i have suspected, having replaced all of my wishbones and been seriously frustrated with the fiddliness of the mounting,m coupled with the fact that the shimming affect the geometry, and often to get the geometry right you need to remove and replace more than one arm to get it all to settle down, or force one arm into a poor mounting situation. This shorter bush housing will allow more flexible movement on mounting, so this is also a know problem and I suspect as much of an issue as the thickness of the bush mounting.
I also note they have not made the ball joint replaceable, presumably thinking its a good idea to replace the whole arm every once in a while, in case it fractures! I hope they have improved the ball joint rubber cover as these were terrible and perished within a couple of years.
I also note they have not made the ball joint replaceable, presumably thinking its a good idea to replace the whole arm every once in a while, in case it fractures! I hope they have improved the ball joint rubber cover as these were terrible and perished within a couple of years.
mchristyuk
Junior Member
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- 668
Greg,
I'm currently writing a letter to Mr Carter who appears high up in the food chain of the DVSA. Will share it here before throwing it in the post for the usual critique and comment... I want to get across how displeased we are in Maserati and the DVSA without sounding like a bunch of whiney loons!
Mark
mchristyuk
Junior Member
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First draft.. comments please...
Dear Mr Carter,
Thank you for your letter of 30th July. Please understand that the only reason we as owners chose to contact the DVSA directly is concern for the safety of other road users, as the initial contact with Maserati UK and Maserati Italy had led nowhere.
It's sad that only 5 cases have been reported to you as we are aware of more and the owners had all said that they would file official cases with the DVSA, so I'd expect more reports to be forthcoming in the near future.
Regarding the fact that only mine has currently been recorded as a fully failed wishbone, (though we know of one other) I'm sure you appreciate that the next stage after cracking on the wishbone is separation from the vehicle in question. The others that have only displayed cracking so far have not had a full failure because WE notified the owners and managed to find them in time and get them removed from the cars in question.
I don't understand your comment about the DVSA footing the postage costs. The DVSA is a public body paid for from tax payers' money (which we are) and is there to ensure our roads are safe. We've legitimately raised a concern and some of our money has now been used to send parts in question to the manufacturer. If the DVSA can't examine the parts and apparently takes exception to sending damaged parts to the manufacturer for examination, I have to question what the point of the DVSA is?
The UK has a wealth of specialist engineering experience who could examine these parts in a couple days and provide an independent view on the cause behind the failures without any vested interest. The fact the DVSA relies on the manufacturer of the parts to drag its heels in deciding whether it is their manufacturing/design at fault or the end user is shocking.
Where the blame lies for the issue is currently immaterial; there were (and still are) cars driving around on our roads on the brink of an accident with the owners unaware. Considering the magnitude of the outcome of such a failure I personally find over 6 months of investigation worrisome, especially as the analysis of such material faults and manufacturing processes are so well known.
We don't expect our concerns to cause any kind of change in process, however we do feel it's only right to make sure they are recorded should the worst happen. Again this is not about finger pointing, laying blame at anybodies doors, expecting compensation or anything of the like. Our concern is getting fellow owners notified that they should get their cars checked as soon as possible. We as a group of enthusiasts are unable to tell all owners to get their cars checked as we simply don't know who they are, the DVSA and Maserati have a far better chance of doing so.
Of significant interest is the new wishbones that are now available from Maserati that are of a completely different design and feature extra material around the failure points. We've heard rumors from many sources about “redesigned components” for a while, however this is the first time we've seen them. For Maserati to go to this much effort re-engineering parts for cars that are no longer sold, whilst telling the owners of the cars that there is no issue doesn't sit very well as I expect you can understand. Maserati clearly knew there was a problem otherwise they wouldn't redesign the components. When we first approached Maserati with our concerns they were only interested in sending us to a main dealer and getting us to buy brand new suspension arms that just so happened to have tripled in price. A cynic would suggest that they were well aware of this impending issue and tried to profit from it rather than concern themselves with the consequences of failure. For your interest I've included pictures of a new rear upper wishbone side by side with the old design so you can see for yourself.
Hopefully this sorry saga can be resolved quickly before somebody is seriously injured, or worse.
Dear Mr Carter,
Thank you for your letter of 30th July. Please understand that the only reason we as owners chose to contact the DVSA directly is concern for the safety of other road users, as the initial contact with Maserati UK and Maserati Italy had led nowhere.
It's sad that only 5 cases have been reported to you as we are aware of more and the owners had all said that they would file official cases with the DVSA, so I'd expect more reports to be forthcoming in the near future.
Regarding the fact that only mine has currently been recorded as a fully failed wishbone, (though we know of one other) I'm sure you appreciate that the next stage after cracking on the wishbone is separation from the vehicle in question. The others that have only displayed cracking so far have not had a full failure because WE notified the owners and managed to find them in time and get them removed from the cars in question.
I don't understand your comment about the DVSA footing the postage costs. The DVSA is a public body paid for from tax payers' money (which we are) and is there to ensure our roads are safe. We've legitimately raised a concern and some of our money has now been used to send parts in question to the manufacturer. If the DVSA can't examine the parts and apparently takes exception to sending damaged parts to the manufacturer for examination, I have to question what the point of the DVSA is?
The UK has a wealth of specialist engineering experience who could examine these parts in a couple days and provide an independent view on the cause behind the failures without any vested interest. The fact the DVSA relies on the manufacturer of the parts to drag its heels in deciding whether it is their manufacturing/design at fault or the end user is shocking.
Where the blame lies for the issue is currently immaterial; there were (and still are) cars driving around on our roads on the brink of an accident with the owners unaware. Considering the magnitude of the outcome of such a failure I personally find over 6 months of investigation worrisome, especially as the analysis of such material faults and manufacturing processes are so well known.
We don't expect our concerns to cause any kind of change in process, however we do feel it's only right to make sure they are recorded should the worst happen. Again this is not about finger pointing, laying blame at anybodies doors, expecting compensation or anything of the like. Our concern is getting fellow owners notified that they should get their cars checked as soon as possible. We as a group of enthusiasts are unable to tell all owners to get their cars checked as we simply don't know who they are, the DVSA and Maserati have a far better chance of doing so.
Of significant interest is the new wishbones that are now available from Maserati that are of a completely different design and feature extra material around the failure points. We've heard rumors from many sources about “redesigned components” for a while, however this is the first time we've seen them. For Maserati to go to this much effort re-engineering parts for cars that are no longer sold, whilst telling the owners of the cars that there is no issue doesn't sit very well as I expect you can understand. Maserati clearly knew there was a problem otherwise they wouldn't redesign the components. When we first approached Maserati with our concerns they were only interested in sending us to a main dealer and getting us to buy brand new suspension arms that just so happened to have tripled in price. A cynic would suggest that they were well aware of this impending issue and tried to profit from it rather than concern themselves with the consequences of failure. For your interest I've included pictures of a new rear upper wishbone side by side with the old design so you can see for yourself.
Hopefully this sorry saga can be resolved quickly before somebody is seriously injured, or worse.