Energy crisis

rockits

Member
Messages
9,180
It does seem that a blended multi faceted approach is needed. There are so many stupid anomalies and chinks in the joined up end to end quest for improvements.

As many have said, just moving the problem around isn't solving the problem.....it is just moving it around. It still exists but somewhere else and not on your doorstep so not your problem. Er....yes...it is still is your problem....so just deal with it.

We could have done so much more years ago by forcing many businesses to take decisions that were better for the world rather than primarily for profit. We are looking to build something hopefully at some point and when we do the kitchen sink will be thrown at it to make it carbon neutral and actually a nett generator of power. Just like a little mini power station. It will of course come at additional cost to us and the build budget. However it is the right thing to do....at our cost. No govt grants or help just our decision. If developers had started doing this years ago we would be a long way down the line in some areas.

Unfortunately until corruption, lobbying and all the reason change cannot occur are removed from most of our first world developed states' political systems then nothing wil change to any discernable level.

If we reduced this constant need and desire for more then maybe consumerism can be kerbed somewhat. It starts with biggest govts and billionaires of course as they run the biggest entities that can fashion the greatest change. When is enough enough for people. We don't need more to be greener, better or happier.....we need less!

When you see pointless competitions between Gates, Musk, Bezos et al as to how much money they have is somehow a measure of how amazing or successful they are then it is all wrong from the top down. They are irresponsible and shaping the way vulnerable minds are thinking. How strange that so many feel the need to understand success as a measure as the number on a screen. Slightly ironic and maybe linked perhaps that these thoughts allow extreme consumerism to flourish conveniently into the very pockets of the people that benefit the most from said consumerism. Who'd have thunk it?
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,303
I notice the Miele ad currently running on the box is saying ‘designed with a 20-year life’. Well, to me that is just admitting they have been building in obsolescence all along, and 20-years is that even long enough? In the west we are now so used to throwing things away, it is ridiculous. I built the numerous extensions on this house in the 33-years we have been here and when we built the big one I got the best windows I could afford. About 10-years ago I nearly broke the bank to replace the last two then 90-year old timber frames to the front bay upstairs and down. Quite apart from the fact that they made them nearly 100mm too small in every dimension! They are now totally knackered. We have replaced all of the first extension frames already. Apparently there are grants for some to replace windows if they are over 10-years old. How can we sustain this sort of consumerism? It just doesn’t make any sense.
 

safrane

Member
Messages
16,905
Totally agree, capitalism has made China the force it is today.

I do get sick and tired of being preached to by those who get a new phone every other year, flies to Benidorm and the like 3 or 4 times a year, wear disposable fashion and drink milk extracted from anything other than a mammal.

Only one way out of climate change and that is for fewer humans.
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,180
Worth reading.
It is crazy indeed. Just getting bored or all the fake news, irresponsible fact failed journalism and the difficult in finding fact from fiction.

Quote.from that very article:
We are obsessed with plastic bags. We believe we’re doing the world a favour by buying tote bags instead, though, on one estimate, the environmental impact of producing an organic cotton tote bag is equivalent to that of 20,000 plastic ones.

I'm not sure what is true but the truth does exist and surely we need the truth with accurate facts to be able to make the best informed decisions. Half the time we could be doing more harm than good due to innacurately reported information.
 

Tallman

Member
Messages
1,840
We have this dichotomy between building something that lasts and it being overtaken by new technology. This is especially so for energy and resource using contraptions that tend to become more efficient. And us, in principle good willing citizens, have no way of knowing now which is the better. Buying something that doesn’t last and replacing with one more efficient or buying something that lasts but may become so inefficient that it doesn’t make sense to keep it for its intended life span. Your Miele example is a good one - I recently had to make a decision what new washing machine to buy. The Miele, which I have had before we embarked on the energy efficiency drive, lasted for a very long time. It is now twice as expensive as a Bosch. I chose to go for the Bosch, reasoning that it’s still German design and efficient enough and that the Miele would become uneconomical in the longer run. I just hope I’m right and it was the best decision I was able to make. Same goes for most white large appliances. At least those purchases are not as emotional as car purchases where emotion is another excuse for not buying something sensible - at least at the moment. Hopefully technology and the need to get people to switch, will induce the designers to come up with something that is emotionally as good a buy as it is rationally.
 

dickygrace

www.richardgracecars.co.uk
Messages
7,342
And the new white goods are PCP/Lease cars and EV’s. How many ‘old cars’ do we see on the roads now? The vast majority of cars are under 10 years of age. They’re banging on about tailpipe emissions and completely ignoring the manufacturing process outputs of CO2 which are huge.
 

Harry

Member
Messages
1,193
I notice the Miele ad currently running on the box is saying ‘designed with a 20-year life’. Well, to me that is just admitting they have been building in obsolescence all along, and 20-years is that even long enough? In the west we are now so used to throwing things away, it is ridiculous. I built the numerous extensions on this house in the 33-years we have been here and when we built the big one I got the best windows I could afford. About 10-years ago I nearly broke the bank to replace the last two then 90-year old timber frames to the front bay upstairs and down. Quite apart from the fact that they made them nearly 100mm too small in every dimension! They are now totally knackered. We have replaced all of the first extension frames already. Apparently there are grants for some to replace windows if they are over 10-years old. How can we sustain this sort of consumerism? It just doesn’t make any sense.
As far as my experience of them goes, Miele products have always been sold as having a 20 year life.
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,180
And the new white goods are PCP/Lease cars and EV’s. How many ‘old cars’ do we see on the roads now? The vast majority of cars are under 10 years of age. They’re banging on about tailpipe emissions and completely ignoring the manufacturing process outputs of CO2 which are huge.
Agreed Dicky. Apart from the token obligatory EV we have just got all mine are over 10 years old. Well except for the work token obligatory PHEV thing but that is going soon now that many of the beneficial reasons I was suckered into it in the first place have been removed.
 

Phil H

Member
Messages
4,191
Rich people using smoke and mirrors to get richer. “Let’s make hydrogen in an environmentally friendly way then ship it half way across the world in a heavy oil powered ship”.
That may be, but so is EV which is a con and does nothing more than kick the climate 'solution' down the road.
 

Lozzer

Member
Messages
2,285
For fear of wading into a debate that has no end....

A few points to consider:Rural communities are beginning to revolt against the imposition of "city centric" green solutions. Here in France, farming communities are beginning to take legal action to halt windmill construction. That windmills create noise pollution, blight the landscape, and kill an enormous quantity of birds are common talking points. There is no engineering reason that you couldn't build windmills in London or Paris but it doesn't seem that Sadiq Khan or Anne Hidalgo are that keen to give it a go while they love waging war on automobiles.

Bill
Some brilliant points made there, but this...
Cash is king...
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,131
That may be, but so is EV which is a con and does nothing more than kick the climate 'solution' down the road.

Not really what I was getting at. If JCB were so keen on being environmentally friendly they could produce the green hydrogen here, we’ve got plenty of wind and water, rather than investing in a mining company of all things, making it 1000s of miles away.
 

Lozzer

Member
Messages
2,285

Lozzer

Member
Messages
2,285

Tallman

Member
Messages
1,840
I know, that isn't the bone of contention though is it, the global push for emissions improvement is going down an EV road that can't be Justified, its a red herring, it's only Justified in pound notes.
Step up the TRILLION dollar companies!
Do tell why it isn’t justified as I don’t know what you’re actually referring to
 

Lozzer

Member
Messages
2,285
Do tell why it isn’t justified as I don’t know what you’re actually referring to
Justify the emissions of production, supply of energy through its lifetime and disposal, the market is that new the impact of disposal hasn't even arisen yet, like 100 years ago with ice, no one knew, and we don't now, but lets go for it anyways.
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,327
Interestingly, one of the main issues with lithium ion batteries is that there wasn’t a way of recovering the rare earth elements from their chemistry, creating a need for constant mining to make new ones.

Well, there is now. In time there will be a circular battery supply chain, much like there is for lead acid batteries.