******* ******* **** face ******* of a boss!!

[BennyD]

Dem,

I'm sorry to hear this.

It feels like déja vu all over again for me: I left my previous employer because they wanted to renegotiate my bonus structure retrospectively to avoid paying a healthy bonus which was due. It was clearly constructive dismissal and I took advice from a barrister friend who specialises in contract law. I still remember his initial assessment after I laid the facts before him. His point was there are some sums not worth fighting for and there are others which are. In my particular case he felt it was worth the fight. He passed me onto his personal solicitors and as it was a fairly black and white matter with the employer being clearly in the wrong we managed to reach a negotiated settlement quickly.

But Dan's point stands. Had the sums involved been any smaller I'm sure he would have advised me to walk away. If you take this geezer to tribunal you will probably win but what will you win? It won't be mega-bucks. More likely he will be compelled to offer you your job back but the atmosphere in the office will be awful and doubtless he will put so many hurdles in your way that you won't be able to earn any commissions. This would be pretty much a lose/lose situation: it will take you much anguish and stress to "win" and you will be no better off financially.

I think I would be inclined to walk away.

Remember the best revenge is success. You are obviously good at your job; just apply yourself and look forward to the day you come across him in the future when you will doubtless be successful and he'll still be a mediocre non-entity.

Good luck mate.

And by walking away you confirm his right to do anything he wants to his employees with impunity. All the safeguards put into place to stop this happening are written off because it's all too much trouble. What's the point in having them? What's the point of a contract if you just walk away? Dem now has no job and no financial backing until he gets another job; when will that be? He has a wife, a mortgage and a young daughter to support but has no income. IMO, this 4sshole should be made to support him financially until he gets a new position. I can see both sides of the argument but, IMO, the way this idiot has behaved deserves a financial kick in the slats.

 

[Felonious Crud]

Dem, the guy sounds like the worst kind of unsufferable **** and from what you've said he deserves shame and misfortune.

From my perspective you need to remain the consumate professional. Take some legal advice (I know a good employment lawyer who won't screw you financially but it sounds like you have some good options already) and act on it. If you can you should keep this away from court because it will take forever, be as stressful as you could ever imagine, be cripplingly expensive and will do no one any favours. As soon as you get near a court only the lawyers win. It certainly seems like multiple statutory processes have not been followed so you should be in a reasonable position, but don't assume that because you have been wronged the law (which really is an @ss much of the time) will be on your side. The law is only ever on the side of the law, if you see what I mean. Just because someone's a **** it doesn't mean you will win. If you can agree a compromise agreement then be assurred his actions will do more for his reputation and career than your vitriol would ever achieve.

Keep us all posted, mate. You have the moral and emotional backing of the best kick-@ss forum on the planet!

/Adam

PS - again, what a ****

 

[Max Swell]

I echo Adams sentiments a well constructed legal letter or two will have his solicitor knowing that you are serious and will let the employer know what it will cost to a. Defend and b. if he loses. I would expect at a £7k legal bill to defend and he is on very shaky ground so would probably lose. Unfair dismissal can be an open cheque book but isn't usually, I would expect your solicitor to open with a settlement of 12 months OTE and settle on 6.

You may as well you have nothing to lose, as far as your CV goes I would wipe it from the record if only there a short time.

Good luck Dem

Max

 

[rossyl]

You may as well you have nothing to lose, as far as your CV goes I would wipe it from the record if only there a short time.

On the point of CV and references.

Dem - you should be able to agree alomost the exact wording of your refernce with your former employer during the process of taking them to task.

 

[Woody]

References are a farce - I work for a very well regarded global concultancy and their references for me are "Woody worked here from X to Y, during that time he proved to be reliavle and we had no cause to doubt his integrity"

Thats it.

 

[Elliott653]

My Mrs is head of the Employment Law department of one of the biggest banks in the City. It's quite remarkable how many cases that she prepares that get to the doors of the court and then are settled by the bank so as not to get the bank a bad reputation publicly. Even with cases where the plaintiff has less than half a leg to stand on.

Dem, you're betting on whether your old company will pay expensive lawyers to fight you all the way with the possibility of them losing, with all that that would entail for them in the trade when that got out. Or, them paying you to go away. As against you fighting them with all the pain and grief that means for you and your family against you putting it down to experience and moving on.

Sometimes in business I've found it better in the long run not to go to court than even to go and win.

It's a tough call. Good luck fellow Enfielder !

 

[MAF260]

References are a farce - I work for a very well regarded global concultancy and their references for me are "Woody worked here from X to Y, during that time he proved to be reliavle and we had no cause to doubt his integrity"

Thats it.

That's quite a good, detailed reference in this day and age. My parent company (global advertising business) stops at "X worked here as (title) between these dates"
We're not even allowed to refuse a reference any more. I fired a complete idiot early last year who cost my business a fortune in mistakes and was not able to ignore the reference request from his new company or say anything about him. American-owned company petrified of litigation. The world has gone mad!

 

[Elliott653]

References are a farce - I work for a very well regarded global concultancy and their references for me are "Woody worked here from X to Y, during that time he proved to be reliavle and we had no cause to doubt his integrity"

Thats it.

There's a reason for that. That's to stop you or your new employers from suing them for givng an opinion that doesn't stand up. Bland is now the name of the game with references.

 

[dem maser]

I have been doing a bit of research today....

I am seeing the solicitor on Mon but in the meantime i have been told to not go court and try to settle out so that will be my goal....ill still take him for everything owed to me but this way will be quicker to do so....

Have lined up 2 interviews at the mo for next week so hopefully ill be in employment come Feb as i cant afford to be without pay for much longer....

Their worst rivals, their worst enemies are 50 metres down the road and ive always got on well with that director, hes already asked to see me next week so ill say hes going to offer me a job....

Wont take it straight away if so but will do after they compensate me....

 

[Max Swell]

Well done dem sounds like a plan!

Good advice on not going to court both parties never want to but it doesn't hurt to threaten it ....he will want to get to court a lot less than you do. I think you'll get a deal out of this and a new job.

Ying and yang

 

[Felonious Crud]

Dem - great news and positive actions, well done mate, I'm really pleased for you! But... I might be inclined to say nothing regarding future opportunities. Just keep your powder dry. I can't see how your plans are of any relevance to your current / previous **** of a boss. It may even be to your advantage for everyone involved to perceive a greater hardship.

 

[allandwf]

Nightmare, hope all works out well. Here's to work and a prosperous 2013.

 

[Phil H]

I have been doing a bit of research today....


Wont take it straight away if so but will do after they compensate me....

Dem

Money in the bank (by way of a new job) is always better than the chance of a pay-off which could take a while to achieve. You may not get much of the latter anyway, and if compensation comes by way of an out-of-Court settlement it may have strings attached that you'd be better off without. Tread carefully, even with professional legal advice.

PH

 

[hodroyd]

Dem,
Sounds like things are moving quite quickly Mate, excellent news. Your last employer will have to pay you for a month if you were on monthly pay and holiday pay, plus any commission owed. You should also be claiming compensation from them and I would suggest trying for 6 months average earnings at least, then they will wittle this down a bit. You should not have any strings attached, they are the guilty party, not you. If there is a chance of a job that you want, take it, but say contractually you are unable to start on the books officially straight away, but could start as a consultant for a few weeks off the books and invoice them.
The very best of luck mate.
Cheers
R

 

[Andyk]

I have been doing a bit of research today....

I am seeing the solicitor on Mon but in the meantime i have been told to not go court and try to settle out so that will be my goal....ill still take him for everything owed to me but this way will be quicker to do so....

Have lined up 2 interviews at the mo for next week so hopefully ill be in employment come Feb as i cant afford to be without pay for much longer....

Their worst rivals, their worst enemies are 50 metres down the road and ive always got on well with that director, hes already asked to see me next week so ill say hes going to offer me a job....

Wont take it straight away if so but will do after they compensate me....

Thats good news Dem......I really bhope it all gets sorted for you quickly....

 

[Phil H]

Dem,
You should not have any strings attached, they are the guilty party, not you. R

Correct, but that doesn't stop employers trying it on, especially if they see you as a threat to their business and don't want you swimming in the same pond. It happens, which is why you should always read settlement offers very carefully before accepting them.

PH

 

[dem maser]

My contract says i cant work for any other agent in 5 mile radius for a year....will try to get that wiped....

 

[Felonious Crud]

My contract says i cant work for any other agent in 5 mile radius for a year....will try to get that wiped....

That clause cannot be enforced, Dem, but I agree you should get it explicitly waived. A decent employment solicitor will handle that in any compromise agreement.

 

[Woody]

That clause cannot be enforced, Dem, but I agree you should get it explicitly waived. A decent employment solicitor will handle that in any compromise agreement.

Adam, I'm curious about this one....are you a lawyer or had experience with this? My very limited knowledge tells me that if you've got a very specific skill which would materially affect someones business, then it will be with held....but for the most part, its not worth the paper its written on as its seen as unnecessarily punitive to the individual, as I would say is the case with Dem.

 

[Felonious Crud]

Hi Woody. No, I'm not a lawyer. Spend a fair amount of time with corporate lawyers and have been through the redundancy etc thing (on both ends of the discussion) enough to know that the non-compete clause will never be upheld in court. If Dem was leaving of his own free-will it would be reasonable that a period (say three months) must pass before he could work for a direct competitor but in this case to enforce that clause would deny Dem the right to earn a living. As you say, it would be unnecessarily punitive. Our contracts all contain the same clause and in case of redundancy it's waved every time.